Posts made by Miss Demeanor

Okay. For the third time. No Kith 'always' belongs to any Seeming. Because Dual Kith. It let you pick and choose which of the 7945 flavors of Changeling you wanted to play. No Contract (aside from Court Contracts) was ever closed off to a player because of the Kith they chose. Or the Seeming. Picking certain Kiths could gain you -affinity- costs for a specific Contract, but you weren't ever told 'no, you cannot has this Contract, you are not X'.

2E Changeling will not likely be able to keep even all of the Kiths in the CtL core book since they are making Kith take the place of Seeming. I'm going to bet there will be no Dual Kith as there was never a 'at the heart of things... you are two different things'. Maybe a Dual Seeming. SO. Chances are good that the bulk of the Kiths people enjoyed? Going away. Contracts that were available to anyone with the xp? Now dictated by Seeming. How is this more varied?

@HelloRaptor While I can take or leave the CtL PTSD origin story, I still prefer it to CtD's 'we're magic fairies and brownies and elves, etc. from another wooooooooooorld' origin story. It went from Disney to Sin City. I'm okay with that.

takes this to the Bitching thread

@Coin I have no reason to be optimistic. I've seen nothing from GMC/2E that's interested me in the least, let alone enough to leave nwod behind. No different from still playing 3.5/Pathfinder for D&D, to me. The newest edition has given me nothing new that I like and has taken away much of what I enjoyed from the previous edition.

@Arkandel See, now THAT I would be interested in playing. A Werewolf sphere where everyone is a member of some huge extended family, small packs springing up here and there... possibly somewhere out in the mountains.

See, I liked that I could take extra Kiths if I wanted a little extra something. In current Changeling, your Seeming still determines which Contracts you have 'affinity' with, but you aren't flat out -forbidden- from taking any others (aside from the Court Contracts, that is). So... meh to 2E Changeling. Looks more like they're taking -away- possibilities with the shift in Kith/Seeming rather than opening them up.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaah. The last Fairest I played never actually used her slight Social bonus. She didn't have any of the social Contracts, either. She was, however, absolutely fantastic in combat. Oh, and she could heal decently well. Pretty good with tracking. Had a knack for finding and growing goblin fruits. Was a pretty damn good sneak later on, too.

Hell, I remember back on HM, one of the most sociable people for the longest time was an Elemental. Mechanically, he didn't get 10-again for a few important social skills. Didn't matter, though. Or the Darkling that was focused more on hand to hand combat while also being one scary motherfucker when he felt like it. Seen a Wizened that was a beast in combat.

The point being, @Wizz, in Changeling, your Seeming does not define what you do, even Kith and Court are really more like suggestions or possibilities than hard and fast roles. I played a Spring, Fairest Dancer/Skitterskulk/Lurker. She was pretty much anything BUT a Face. But if you play an Ithaeur in Werewolf? You're the ritualist, the knowledge seeker, the ritemaster. All your affinity Gifts that you can get for free from dots of Renown are going to be geared towards that. Even the Tribes are geared towards fulfilling a role. Five auspices, five tribes, five roles within the Werewolf world. The books do everything but bludgeon you over the head with it. And yeah, I think its largely in part to what Theno pointed out about Werewolf being so very pack-centric.

And now I want waffles. Damn you both! fistshakes

@Thenomain Doesn't mean I can't still grump about one sentence of fluff text being used to insist that the mechanic means invisibility. Cause, y'know, stating definitively that you are intangible multiple times and 'effectively in a state of Twilight' once while in the obvious context of how you're treated by ghosts totally means you're invisible as well. >.> /endgrump

Edit' And yeah, even just the intangible part allows for serious abuse.

Theno's right. If you ever have doubts about nChangeling? Look at the years long debate on how Separation 5 works. >.>

You're trying to form opinions based on partial information. Until the book is released, anything you say is conjecture at best. You can't quote nwod Changeling then attempt to match it to 2E Werewolf. Pick a format, man. nWoD or 2E?

I'll say right off, referencing something mentioned earlier in the thread... you can very much play a Vampire without engaging overmuch in the politics and manipulations. There's a reason that there are two notable Clans that are generally considered -bad at social interactions-. I tend to play Gangrel for just this reason. I don't have to be all politicky and manipulative. I can just be a walking beatstick and have fun with that while still having a position within the Praxis and still being involved in the sphere.

That said... Changeling still offers the MOST options, to me. They have a wide variety of Seemings and Kiths to pick from. Entitlements abound. There's... so many possible Courts. To me its like the difference between booting up Borderlands, where you would have 4 different characters to pick from with a few possible different heads or skins that could be applied for a bit of individuality, and Skyrim, where there's like 10 playable races PLUS an almost limitless ability to customize from there.

I would accept the Renown XP -only- on the condition that it is not tallied separately from normal XP.

@Wizz Except that according to nWerewolf, you start taking penalties to dealing with humans immediately upon your First Change. And they get progressively worse pretty quickly. So that 'regular dude/dudette' thing doesn't really work at all. Once you FC, you basically lose your place in 'normal society' to become a full-time Werewolf. Sure, you CAN keep a normal job, but you can bet its not going to be something that requires a lot of facetime with people. Service industry? Be prepared for bad tips as your Primal Urge freaks people the fuck out. Customer service? Probably won't last long as you get tagged for giving off 'bad vibes' to the customers. Cashier, secretary, legal aide, receptionist, car parker, any sort of management position... they all require a good deal of interaction with the very people that don't want to be anywhere near you.

So yes, technically, there's as much depth as you want to give them. Mechanically and thematically? You are alienated from the get-go, and should be. Your new bestial nature is unsettling and humans don't want to be around you anymore.

I gave my opinion because its something that's bugged me about Werewolf for ages. I don't expect my viewpoint to be popular, or enacted as rule on a game. If @Eerie and @Coin feel that Renown should be justified in some way, whether through written justifications or logged scenes, that's up to them. Its their game, they get to make the rules.

And is really no different than running tailor-made prp's to gain a dot in Renown X. Not to mention it calls up the same kind of unrest that Arcane XP brings up on TR. That idea that this splat is 'special' and will have more normal xp to spend on other things because that XP goes specifically towards that one type of stat.

I also like nChangeling. To me it offers choices. More choices than any other splat I've played in. You can be, literally, whatever you want to be. You can play up the horror aspect if that's what you want. You can play pretty princess if that's what floats your boat. Much like what Theno said... hero, villain, and anything in between. It has a very visceral sort of decision-making aspect to it. Choose Your Own Adventure.

@Arkandel I find myself in the same boat. I just do not care for the current Renown system, and without some serious adjustment in 2E Werewolf, I can't see myself slogging through it to play one.

@Creepy That was sort of my point. In order to gain Renown, you need actual events or plots to happen to get those dots. Which inevitably leads to you either having to wait in the HOPE that what you're looking for will HAPPEN to be in a given plot being run... or you have to request someone run the scene specifically for that Renown. Which, as Ark mentioned earlier, takes the spontaneous fun out the RP. Its railroaded plot, regardless of it being beneficial, and railroaded plot is rarely that fun to take part in. And there's only so much you can logically put into your BG before it becomes an obvious bid for more Renown. Besides which, as I believe I said in a different thread a ways back, I prefer to barebones a BG so that I can determine fun details in RP.

Nnnnnnnnnnngh... hate Werewolf Renown. Renown is why I DON'T play Werewolf. Glory Renown is about the easiest damn thing in the WORLD to get. Beat up a vampire and took his blood money? Glory. Had a lesser spirit talk smack so you slapped it into place? Glory. Pure bitch got stupid and you spanked her til she ran home? Glory. So to me, not really the best example.

Should Renown expectations change in 2E, I will be more than happy to look at them and reevaluate my opinion. But until I don't have to spend IC -years- watching over a locus to get a dot of Purity? Meh. MU*wise, some Renown are just easier to gain than others by current standards, and it makes playing anything but a 'rawrkill' character something you HAVE to pester people for scenes over. Which in turn leads to Ark's point. I don't want to have to ask someone to run a scene for me just so I can advance normally within the splat. Especially when no other splat really demands such things.

As long as SOMEONE in a given Covenant is willing to run that stuff on an OOC basis, I don't care if the Primogen would rather take a more hands-off approach. They are, after all, mostly meant to be the voice of the Covenant and liason FOR the Covenant. The highest ranking Kindred in a given Covenant isn't necessarily going to be the Primogen.

@ThatOneDude You know under the 2nd method (the use technology one), it suggests blocking the person from your social networks. Which this would be one of.

This same sort of thing happened to me when I tried for my driver's license in Iowa years back. I got docked points because I went over the speed limit to avoid being rear-ended by the jackass that was about an inch off my back bumper. I got docked points for not waiting on the pedestrian that was FIFTY FEET AWAY from the crosswalk before making a turn.

The same thing happens in Tampa when it rains. Despite the fact that it rains half the year here, people still seem to lose their minds at the first drop.