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    Best posts made by surreality

    • RE: Productive Self Care

      Things that help me:

      • Have a stash of 'grazing food' in your most frequently occupied space. I may not be able to be assed to go to the kitchen and/or cook, even if it's just throwing something into the microwave. I keep a few snackables around the computer to avoid complete days of 'forget to eat' or 'I'll cook something in an hour, shut up growlygut' (that becomes forgetting again for 6 hours and shrugging and going to bed even more exhausted than I should be). I keep pretzels, a box of whatever horrible cereal I wasn't allowed to have as a kid, some hard candies (usually peppermints since they help with stress-based stomach woes), and similar small, no mess non-perishables. I keep mine by the computer, but I have kept stuff in the bedroom for times I can't make it down the hall. (In fairness, this is rare, because the studio/computer room is almost equally sedentary a space, and I have to haul my ass down the hall to the bathroom anyway, so may as well go the next few feet and throw something on Netflix to zone out to.)

      • Don't shame yourself for not being up to <thing> right now. Easier said than done when it's 'eat' or 'shower' or 'sleep', but if you can't due to feeling awful and being overwhelmed with stress, burdening yourself even more is not going to help. Short form: it won't help to call yourself an asshole for these things when you already feel like shit.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: A Post-Mortem for Kingsmouth

      @mietze said:

      Surr, the draconian policy on no staff alts being allowed to have positions of power or huge influence was one of the things that kept the community (of players who are/have been/probably will be at each others throats and princessing and cutting each other out of play on other games) from doing that on RfK. Huge, glaring You Shall Not Pass CoI demarcation with wide lines. It was fantastic. I think that's what made the politics happen ICly as much as the downtime system. That and headstaff with balls AND a customer service touch.

      I get what you're saying here; I simply disagree with it wholeheartedly.

      That policy essentially states: "the people I hired to run the game can't be trusted to handle these matters impartially or otherwise hand it off to someone else to avoid CoI". It's what it comes down to in the end.

      That's exceptionally destructive, as it sets up the expectation that staff could not be trusted to behave properly without those rules in place, when "don't process your own jobs, those of your close associates, or jobs that otherwise involve you" covers it without restricting happy fun times for anyone or implying that your staff members cannot be trusted to be fair if they are also enjoying the game in the same way as any other player is allowed to do.

      And that's just nonsense. Plenty of staff can, do, and have done, every day, many for years on end. I would never hire someone who I couldn't trust to do so in the first place.

      It feeds the paranoid nonsense by coddling it, frankly, and more or less says people simply can't be trusted. Some people can't. Some can. Hire the ones that can, if someone proves otherwise, fire them. This punished everyone for the sake of the fear of bad apples, which are considerably less common than the tasty kind without rotten cores.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: RL Anger

      This isn't an irk, and anger is a much better fit.

      The mental health crisis in this country is downright terrifying.

      That it's led to people being taken in by dangerous conspiracy theories and all manner of grift throughout the pandemic is not just scary, but tragic on an incredible scale.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: The elusive yes-first game.

      @Lithium said:

      @surreality said:

      @Alzie said:

      @Misadventure Players are never helpless, especially so in games. All it takes is clicking exit.

      This is still more than a bit overly simplistic.

      It isn't really 'click exit', it's 'potentially scrap a character you may have been playing for years and otherwise have excellent experiences on because a specific individual can't behave maturely enough to leave you alone'.

      If it was as simple as 'click exit', this hobby would have substantially less angst-ridden bullshit in it than it does.

      That's not entirely true. It is as simple as click an exit, or type quit and hit enter.

      Nothing lasts forever and these are games not life and death. They're really not. If something is happening you simply cannot handle, then quit is an option.

      There's also the option of talking to staff, page locking, leaving situations with the person who is the problem, or trying to resolve that problem.

      There are /other/ options, but quit is most definitely one of them.

      Sometimes it's the only one left when a game has stopped being fun or entertaining.

      Does it suck? Sure, it can, but in the end we have to be willing to let go of a character or it leads to even /more/ asshattery. Nothing lasts forever and if the time spent on a 'game' is more frustrating than fun, it's time to go imho.

      Quit is definitely one of them, yes.

      It is not, however, a solution without complications or consequences, which means it isn't a simple or flawless, catch-all solution as it's presented to be by @Alzie's statement that's being addressed by the comment.

      I'm not suggesting that anything should last forever... anywhere, unless you're reading the notion of someone having invested a fair amount of time into something (as a factor that someone will likely weigh in on their decisions on how to handle the situation) as that person necessarily having some delusion that they can't be harmed or that a character will live forever. People, by virtue of basic human nature, don't tend to invest much time in something that has null value to them, and 'quit/discard' is not always going to be a universally satisfactory solution if the consequences of it mean sacrificing the sum of those efforts as it is being presented by @Alzie.

      I'm also not saying that if things are more frustrating than fun, someone shouldn't leave -- in fact, I stated the direct opposite of this in the example.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • Strange and random, but funny.

      Hi. I'm still alive.

      Anyway, I was bored as hell today and tinkering with an AI art generator and threw the first paragraph of the Nymeria desc into it, and the infamous Tracy desc into another one.

      d4fl40Ma5kqimtch5kFC.jpg

      Tracy came out as gross as one would expect, so it's behind a spoiler tag.

      ***=Hilarious Nightmare Fuel***

      click to show

      hbOQAoyFVJBSlbg5PRZ2.jpg

      Hope y'all are doing well in the hellchaos that has made reality way weirder than any of our fictions over the years.

      I'm still not out and about or playing anywhere or doing dev on anything, but I couldn't NOT share that silliness with y'all.

      P.S. AI art generators are fun for people who like to play with language. Sorry not sorry if this addicts someone else.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: The elusive yes-first game.

      Actually, the guy in question from HM wasn't exactly subtle -- at least when I ran into him on TR.

      He was quite direct about his intentions and ideas, they were just so impressively over the top it's really easy to dismiss them as a joke. As in, "This guy cannot possibly be serious," levels of 'over the top'.

      You don't find out it's anything but a joke until you laugh along, and he explodes.

      So it is actually -- or at least potentially -- a lot more possible to catch these people than might be expected.

      I'm not suggesting that people take everything ridiculous seriously, because that would be equally ridiculous. It isn't hard, however, to see a pattern of things that could be problematic that make you think, "This guy must be kidding... " and check in on that front.

      Spider posted her example exchange with him back on WORA. If someone had bothered to ask, "Dude, is your actual notion of what you want to do on this game coercing female players to RP drinking horse semen for your amusement or preventing them from advancing in their faction?" I suspect the problem would have become rapidly apparent in his particular case, as the problem, in part, was the player's absolute faith in the rightness and acceptability and reasonability of these objectives, and that those uninterested or unwilling to gleefully participate in them were a problem that should be punished. (Really.)

      This kinda thing really is overdue for it's own thread, though, since a lot of points have come up about these kinds of issues that are worthy of discussion on their own, IMO.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Crafts & Things

      @Darinelle said:

      Don't get me started on nail polish. Srsly.

      ...thirded. I even got the stuff to mix custom colors, and blew an entire paycheck on chameleon pigments to that end once. Nail polish is a serious addiction.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Feelings of not being wanted...

      @Ghost said:

      So before you chargen a character who has no interest in dramatic scenes, combat, roleplaying around sad characters, or wanting to follow military protocol might not be the right fit for the game, and that's not anyone else on the game's fault that it doesn't mix. You have got to ask yourself, during cgen, how the character will fit.

      In addition to this, paying some attention to the culture of the game itself OOC counts for one hell of a lot. It can go beyond just the character choice in a lot more subtle ways that ultimately tend to have a much bigger impact on how well the player is themselves rec'd.

      Being the hardcore aggressive PvP-focused player arriving on a game with a long-standing PvE culture, for instance, is not necessarily going to win you a mountain of friends at record speed if you proceed with the philosophy you came in with. Slapping porn links all over the channels of an all ages game, similarly, is probably going to rub some people the wrong way (pun not intended) in the same way showing up at Shang and freaking out any time people start talking about sex would.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: RL things I love

      When the Microsoft tech support scammers, who never stop calling, are too stupid to change their faked called ID.

      I consider them my improv training at this point.

      Today, a milestone:

      When seeing the name come up (again) on caller ID, I answered with: "Hi, you've reached Microsoft Headquarters <town>, how may I direct your call?"

      They didn't even speak.

      ❤

      I've gotten my share of 'fuck you's out of them, and lots of angry sputtering over time, but this is the first 'did not even speak'.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: The Waiting Game

      @faraday There are reasonable, and unreasonable, permutations of that, though -- from both ends.

      Unreasonable: "Oh, Bob? He's been gone a while now, haven't seen him, I feel horribly abandoned and the world is ending, I don't know how he could do this to me! So, no! I'm not going to be able to pass along your 'hello'! Not while I'm grieving!"

      Reasonable: "Nope, haven't run into Bob today, but I'll pass along the message when I next see him." <OOC> You say, "Bob's player hasn't been able to be online in a few weeks, so I am not sure what's going on with that."

      At which point any sane, non-asshole will change the subject and not pursue that further.

      Most anything else, you're being expected to take up the slack for another player to their specific preferences (which you may not even be aware of) -- which is absolutely not OK to simply expect of someone without some kind of pre-existing arrangement or understanding to that end.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Do you believe in paranormal things?

      Oh, shit. I'm going to be typing a while here.

      The quotes I'm picking aren't to pick on the posters making them. They're just perfect examples of the point I think is important to make.

      @Cupcake said in Do you believe in paranormal things?:

      That is an awesome story, true or not.

      Here's the thing: that statement, like a lot of other things, is potentially dangerous shorthand for a more complex reality. (I picked that one because it's the shortest, most succinct example.)

      The story can be true without the implied conclusion.

      The difference between the story and the implied conclusion being true is very different, and it's a difference that can, has, and will continue to have a damaging impact on people's lives.

      The events are what they are.

      The implied conclusion there is that the spirits of the babies on the steps were crying from beyond the grave until such time as they were given a proper burial.

      That can be a false conclusion without calling the actual observed events or 'the story' into question in any way. For instance, if the implied conclusion was, instead, that cats were in fact gathering on that concrete area and wailing, and when the concrete area was destroyed, the cats found somewhere else to do their thing, would you question the 'the story' part, or the implied conclusion?

      Probably neither, but as you call the veracity of the observed events into question based on the conclusion, you're walking a dangerous line. The conclusion is what needs to be called into question -- not the events themselves.

      Pretty much any event can be explained. Maybe not now, but more on that in a moment.

      As @Chime mentions, we once thought the mentally ill were possessed by demons and would torture them rather than offer treatment. We know mental illness exists, now, and thus it isn't the observable phenomena that is 'untrue', it's the conclusion that has been drawn to explain it.

      Substantial harm can come from this in the same way that believing in every wild theory that comes down the pike can cause substantial harm.

      Further, when you call the events themselves rather than the implied conclusion 'untrue', you're automatically putting someone on the defensive and essentially calling them a liar, and that is a challenge to their credibility right out of the gate.

      It's essentially the opposite of the actual scientific method: 'I don't like the conclusion, so the events probably never occurred'. That's not how the scientific method works, and a lot of people go there pretty fast, often without ever realizing they're doing so.

      My favorite example of this comes from a relatively quirky case study. There's a doctor up in Canada, if I recall correctly, who has been doing studies on the effects of electromagnetic fields on the brain. His last name is Persinger, he's likely easy enough to google if you're curious.

      What's interesting is this: what @Arkandel mentions about known conditions causing certain experiences is something he's been able to reproduce in a lab. (Though, boo, man! Sleep paralysis is hagging and the incubus lore, shadow figures and sensed presences are what went down in this lab setting. 😉 ) He was able to, by manipulating the electromagnetic field around a test subject, cause them to 'sense someone in the room' when no one was there, and reproduce other, similar, commonly reported 'paranormal phenomena', just by manipulating these magnetic frequencies.

      And so, there was a woman. She kept sensing a presence in her room. She couldn't sleep. She kept feeling like someone was hovering around her bed at night, and it was freaking her right out. She was experiencing genuine, actual, discomfort over these events.

      She had, of course, endless people telling her it could not be a ghost or creepy actual presence in her room, and therefore, she was nuts, so the events themselves could not be occurring.

      That is not helpful, and people were happy to completely dismiss her problem as this because it's a commonly accepted potential conclusion. (It just wasn't the correct one.)

      She had people telling her, no doubt, there was a ghost in her room wishing her ill or similar.

      Also spectacularly not helpful.

      Then, gods only know how, somebody thought to ask this guy to come in with his kit to check out the room and see if, hey, maybe something in the room was putting off that odd frequency range that makes a lot of people's brains think there's someone looming over them ominously.

      The alarm clock right where 'the ominous figure' would have been standing was.

      They replaced the alarm clock, and her very real problem went away. Thus, it isn't always a case of 'we have a commonly accepted conclusion' and 'we have a fringe theory conclusion' and suddenly you can only choose between those two things as if the answer must be there.

      To me, this is the critical difference between dismissing experiences based on assumed conclusions, and testing those experiences to find out what is actually going on.

      (There's a lot more interesting stuff about that study, mainly that different people respond differently to certain things in terms of sensitivity to the stimuli which is really quite fascinating, but that's another giant blurt for after today's slate of RL work gets a round of time. Alas, clove break over. :/)

      @TNP said in Do you believe in paranormal things?:

      No. With a qualifier. I acknowledge that there's still lots of things we don't know yet and that today's 'paranormal' could be tomorrow's science. However, I've yet to see or experience anything that leads me to believe that such things do in fact exist, explained or not. I could be wrong but the burden of proof is on the one making such claims. This does, of course, apply fully to religion as well.

      This, to me, is clearer on where I think people's brains need to be on this, provided it's, again, not the experience itself, divorced from a conclusion, that's being called into question, but the conclusion as 'the claim'.

      It's the difference between:

      "I saw something weird in the hallway that looked like a person!"

      which could have any number of explanations, and:

      "I saw the ghost of my grandmother in the hallway!"

      too, in terms of how those experiences are being related. Which is also incredibly important; people generally aren't necessarily good at examining the basics like this, though, especially when encountering something that's unusual or somehow frightening to them.

      Just like the experience can't be thrown out because you don't like the conclusion, you can't build the conclusion into the experience itself.

      Personally, I grew up around a lot of weird, weird shit going on more or less all the time. I don't pretend I know what it is. I would love to find out, some day, though I doubt I will in any greater sense. A lot of the 'common conclusions' are, frankly, comforting as hell! (The ancient-of-days username was surreality_vortex, as in, 'weirdness magnet totally doesn't even cut it'. There's a reason for that. 😕 )

      I actually love the ghost hunting shows! ...for plot ideas, though. There's nothing trustable there, really, as 'evidence' of anything. Some of the 'if you have black mold in your house it can fuck with you in the following ways' or 'you should really check for mice if you hear scratching in the walls first before freaking out' kinds of things are, I think, helpful, especially for people exceptionally prone to blame 'the ghosts' for things like black mold that can do them very real and preventable harm, or have the potential to be helpful. Sadly, a lot of that has gone the way of the dodo in favor of sensationalist (sketchy-as-fuck) bullshit.

      I think I'm sitting over in @Thenomain's corner again, though I can't be sure!

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Faction-Based Villain Policy Idea

      While I think players should be willing to risk a character's death, I worry about the focus on it. Namely, this seems to come up all the time as the one risk out there and all scenarios boil down to life or death, which is not only grossly lacking in nuance, it's wearying and generally tiresome and just plain limited.

      I prefer to think of it this way: players should consider what their character is, or is not, willing to risk their life for. It's a good list to make in one's head when making a character, and generally, that list is going to evolve over the course of play.

      Players creating characters who are not willing to risk their life in every scenario seem to be frowned upon, or looked down upon, when frankly, that's realistic, sensible, and utterly reasonable.

      I know, for my real self, what hills I'm willing to die on, and I make a point of understanding these motivations and drives for my characters as well.

      I wouldn't charge into a hail of bullets over nothing, and I wouldn't play a character that would do so either.

      That's not cheaping out, nor is it IC or OOC cowardice; it's realistic and creates even more opportunites for story. Story over pointless/wasted glory, y'know?

      Fiction is full of protagonists who pick their battles. Everyone does this.

      Why, in this hobby, this is considered the equivalent of a party foul is simply beyond me. Have we really dumbed ourselves down that far? No offense intended on that; that binary is something I view to be an oversimplification to the point of gross reality distortion. Why, in this hobby, does every battle have to be joined? Why does every battle need to be a hill to die on? It's worth considering how everything somehow, ultimately, boils down to this these days in the hobby. It's so starkly devoid of nuance it's made a lot of games focused on this thinking lack any and all appeal.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: RL things I love

      @Apos Also hilariously close to the hobby:

      I was with him more closely than I have ever been in this novel; his voice was as powerful for me as I’ve ever heard it. I experienced break through after break through as I walked with him, moved with him, saw through his eyes. What I ask of Lestat, Lestat unfailingly gives. For me, three hunting scenes, two which take place in hotels — the lone woman waiting for the hit man, the slaughter at the pimp’s party — and the late night foray into the slums –stand with any similar scenes in all of the chronicles. They can be read aloud without a single hitch. Every word is in perfect place. The short chapter in which Lestat describes his love for Rowan Mayfair was for me a totally realized poem. There are other such scenes in this book. You don’t get all this? Fine. But I experienced an intimacy with the character in those scenes that shattered all prior restraints, and when one is writing one does have to continuously and courageously fight a destructive tendency to inhibition and restraint. Getting really close to the subject matter is the achievement of only great art. Now, if it doesn’t appeal to you, fine. You don’t enjoy it? Read somebody else. But your stupid arrogant assumptions about me and what I am doing are slander.

      ...we have all known that player.

      At least I think we have a good target quote to demonstrate "overly invested", now, though! So I'd call that a win.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Faction-Based Villain Policy Idea

      @Apos I think that's part of it -- and I couldn't agree more strongly that players who want to dish it and refuse to take it (in any level of consent-or-not system) are, without question, behaving in a way that's, at best, incredibly childish, but is more often downright abusive.

      The other part is that combat-related challenges are simply easier. Other risks need to be tailored much more specifically to individual characters in a way that requires a lot of capable player scene runners, or a lot of time on staff's part.

      Take two characters. One is a shady, grizzled smuggler, and the other an image-conscious socialite. Point a gun at either of them, and they're both going to be at risk. Threaten to expose a secret, and they're both going to be at risk -- but for each of those characters the secret is going to be profoundly different and needs to be individually customized in a way that pointing a gun at them does not require.

      Basically, 'physical risk' is simpler. It's more universal. It's easier. It's one of the main reasons it's what we see the most of.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: RL Anger

      ...yup, looks like I made the right call about restrictive create-a-login and guest foo. 😕

      Gettin' awful tired of people complaining that we can't have nice things, and then so amply proving why this is so.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Tips on Güd TS

      @Duntada said in Tips on Güd TS:

      I'm honestly not too surprised by it. I have several friends that often have women flirting with them specifically because they know they are gay. There's apparently as many women who have the fantasy of being the girl to turn a gay guy straight as there are guys who have the fantasy to turn a lesbian straight. (Though not as many as there are with men who fantasize of turning a lesbian bi.)

      It goes in every possible direction, really. "You'd go gay for me I know it!" is another permutation from the other angle.

      This is one of those areas in which it actively bothers me that people don't leave well enough alone. IC comments like that, fine, whatever, they happen RL... but pushing hard for it OOC or throwing around dice to force it really annoys me and is destined to make many players very uncomfortable at record speed.

      @Auspice said in Tips on Güd TS:

      I just read this and I think I should leave it here:
      http://astolat.tumblr.com/post/144069870158/badscienceshenanigans-0hcicero

      ...can confirm, malachite is not something you want a lot of moist skin contact with (though arguably the amount of time it'd take to fuck the rock would not really constitute this even if it wasn't, uh... condomed, as it takes time for those reactions to really kick off; though that looks like it's been polished which strips much of that chemistry from the top layers but will in fact replace it with OTHER chemicals you don't want near your nethers either), and do not want to grind without heavy duty respirators and ventilation if at all. Or probably grind on.

      What. I have been looking into lapidary equipment this year. What do you people want from me?!

      It is sad, sad, sad, and very telling, that I focused my brain on the rock end of that particular rorschach test. Green shiny rocks are apparently higher in my brain's pecking order than pensises. Wow doesn't that just say it all.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Mundane Super Powers
      • Font of useless knowledge.
      • Stubborn refusal to give up.
      • Ability to pull off green rainbow hair without obvious roots for 3+ months.
      • Pattern recognition like whoa.
      • Living cartoon facial expressions/wild-takes.
      • The ability to plant a foot, straight out at the side, at shoulder-height against a wall without stretching, despite otherwise being a complete chair-potato.
      • ADD brainstorming-fu.

      Weaknesses:

      • Inability to tl;dr for shit.
      • Height on par with the average female wolfblooded char on any given WoD MUX. (Read: 5ft, sometimes under at the end of any given day.) The way to put a stop to my evil schemes: put everything I need on a high shelf.
      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Tips on Güd TS

      @Kestrel said in Tips on Güd TS:

      I find it much, much worse if someone is trying to OOCly coerce a relationship or sex without roleplaying the approach IC first and do not deem the reverse coercion at all.

      I think there's a line here -- and in one respect I think everyone is on the same page, and on the other, everyone's scattered all over the map.

      Mainly, I think most folk are relatively chill about respectful, neutral inquiry, without the heavy breather factor attached (politely asking without awwwyiss bebe yur hawt overtones), but that's still going to vary widely.

      I think we're universally all on the same page that someone wheedling, pushing, bullying, badgering, or hardcore skeeving toward that end OOC is profoundly uncool. Basically, an OOC 'not interested' shouldn't get pushed or wheedled at or bullied OOC, as that's serious creeper territory.

      I think the main difference -- if I had to put a pin in it -- is that you're chill with people pressing for it anyway IC through IC means, while a fair number of the MUSH crowd would be less so, and would find that to be 'pushing for it IC after the OOC no thanks came down'.

      This is sticky (pun not intended); I've seen this from both sides.

      • I've had RP with no initial conversation that went somewhere IC, and that's very neutral ground if it's pursued further IC.
      • I've also had instances in which the initial OOC conversation has taken place, and guidelines have been laid down amongst those involved... and then people push for things vastly outside them, or utterly contrary to them, through IC means.

      There is a world of difference here between the two scenarios.

      In the first, if something happens that's unwanted or squicky, it's not like the other party could have intuited so by magic[1]. It's not intentional. You know someone is not knowingly disregarding or disrespecting you on the player level, because it's a case of 'shit happens'.

      In the second? Not so innocent. Player to player, limits were agreed upon. 'Out of bounds' was likely decided. Knowingly disregarding these things is already not good. Forcing them to happen anyway through IC means is now much worse, because the other player? They know it's not kosher on the player level, or it would have been in the safe zone in the first place.

      It basically doubles up the squick factor, because IC force is being employed to steamroll the other player, regardless of whatever agreement was made (which means untrustworthy right off the bat on the player level, at the very least).

      [1] Major taboo territory -- incest, bestiality, snuff, and similar 'you can't even legally buy porn of it' subject matter -- is still something that people should probably be prepared to assume is not automatically fair game, to my reckoning.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Tulpas or Roleplaying?

      @Misadventure Apropos of nothing, I always wanted to make an Uncanny Valley-themed Nosferatu, somewhere, down to the perfect symmetry problem.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      surreality
      surreality
    • RE: Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes

      @Arkandel I'm with you on it being a peeve, but I can empathize a little.

      A scene in progress has momentum already; starting one can take a shred more oomph or sometimes the inevitable and dreaded:

      "What do you want to do?"
      "I dunno, what do you want to do?"
      "Anything's fine."
      "Anybody got any ideas?"
      <silence>

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      surreality
      surreality
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