Posts made by Tinuviel

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

But for folks like me, the Evennia team, and @Kumakun who are investing in design for the next generation of platforms - I should hope so.

Sure. But if those future plans aren't aimed at us... why ask for our input? Not aiming this at you fara, but at the thread itself.

ETA: I'm all for making coder's and/or programmers' lives easier, so y'all do what you need to do on the backend to make that work for you. But if you want to include us in this bright new future you've envisioned, maybe don't make radical changes to the bits we use regularly. Make other stuff, sure, but don't penalise us for choosing what we prefer over what's new and fancy.

@surreality Nah, man. I'm looking for a wall-mounted Microsoft Surface device. We could call it... the Window.

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

but chaining our games to a CLI is a bad long-term plan IMHO

Why?

Secondary question: Do we need a long-term plan?

@thenomain The only problem I've got with the idea as presented is that it is designed specifically to appeal to new people. That's all fine and good on its own, but if you're advertising it as a MUSH people are going to look up what a MUSH is. And if your thing is markedly different (which is, I believe, the point) to what we already have then people aren't any more likely to bother with the new thing than what we've got.

@wizz Not everything is released under the OGL.

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

You can't convince the early adopters to adopt if they can't play with their friends.

This is why so many social networking ideas fail.
And honestly this is all just a social network with other stuff on top.

@arkandel said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

Technology changes what we like by giving us what we like more.

Yeah. And so far, we haven't seen something we liked more. Not enough to change, as @faraday has said.

Oh, wait. No. We have.
We have video games now. We do those.

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

I was asking, specifically, if I (or someone) opened up a new MUSH that looked cool but you couldn't use your usual client, you could only use a web browser or some other new-fangled client - would you try it?

No. I avoid web interfaces for MU*s. I open a video game to play a video game, I open a web browser to browse the web, I open a MU client to MU. Simples. Until I'm shown a reason to switch, I won't.

@arkandel said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

People don't know what they want until you show it to them.

People want what's familiar. New things are viewed skeptically and critically until they can be shown to be 'better' than what already exists. So it's not a matter of showing off the new shiny, you've also got to show off why it's better as well.

@arkandel Is it dying because it's old, or because there are so many other distractions for people now that nobody puts in the effort to join?

One makes a thing like a MU, in spirit if not in body, specifically with the intention of drawing people from outside the realm we live in now, not appealing to those people already within the text-based-real-time-persistant-role-playing community... Why would they use that rather than another roleplaying service, like Roll20 or whatever else?

Why would they learn this new thing, when there are easier things out there to get into? What makes the new thing any more appealing a prospect to learn than the present state of affairs? What we have is simple. Inelegant, maybe, but it's relatively simple. Adding all the whizz-bang features you want adds complexity, which adds difficulty.

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

@tinuviel said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

I'd say that it's less that we absolutely will not, more that we absolutely don't see the need. Speaking for myself, at the very least.

If I made a "MUSH" that could only be played via the web, would you even give it a look? Or would you dismiss it as some variant of PBP forum RP that isn't your thing?

If you would try it out, then you're in the minority (based on polls here on MSB and my own personal surveys and feedback via Ares). That's not a criticism, btw. That's just reality.

I used to regularly play forum RP. I like the way things are now, however, and haven't found a compelling argument or benefit to change what I know to something entirely new.

ETA: I'm not at all intending to shout down your plans or ideas. Simply making especially sure that these things are thought about. I probably won't jump onboard a new thing, but that's no reason to not make it.

@arkandel said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

Telnet isn't a convention, it is a protocol

Wasn't actually talking about telnet in this instance, I expanded my scope a bit to include culture which is to what I was referring. A culture of rules and 'standards' established due, at least in part, to the nature of telnet's limitations.

If you want to make something specifically for new people, should you really base it off of a tired, old, pre-existing culture's ideas of the way things should be done?

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

veteran MU players will not switch to a new client

I'd say that it's less that we absolutely will not, more that we absolutely don't see the need. Speaking for myself, at the very least.

@arkandel said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

As for attracting new players allow me a very simple question.

I honestly don't care about attracting new players all that much. We are what we are because of what we do, if you want to do it too then join in. Else, this might not be the group for you.

@kumakun My comment wasn't entirely tongue-in-cheek, and there's more to a name than simply what something is called. There's a culture, expectations, and the like that go along with it. If you're keen on making radical changes from what we have now, to the point where it'd only just be recognisable, it's not going to be the same thing. And if it's not going to be the same thing, why use any of the same conventions?

@faraday said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

the defining quality of a "MU*

The grumpy old people clinging to outdated foundations and standards.

@kumakun That'd be like saying a cave painting is the same as the Mona Lisa, tut tut.

@arkandel said in What's out there now and what has been attempted? A codebase discussion.:

a web-only MU engine

If it isn't telnet, is it MU*?

@surreality said in Bloopers:

Ever since, I've felt like a loser for not being able to write so well as I apparently write when I'm asleep.

This but when I'm drunk.

I only really skimmed your post, but some minor points:

@deathbird said in Apology to Darinelle:

now some players might wonder that while they're having fun, is the person next to them having fun

That's hardly a bad thing. People should be concerned as to whether what they're doing is fun for everyone involved. They should also be concerned as to whether the level of their workload is impacting people.

@deathbird said in Apology to Darinelle:

but is cowardice when it's done to avoid private confrontation

That right there is plain wrong as a generalisation. There are plenty of reasons to state something publicly rather than in a 'one-on-one' that have nothing to do with cowardice. To assume otherwise is, at best, disingenuous.

Gotten to my train super early because work meeting on a Saturday (should be illegal dammit) only to discover that I've got a sock stuck in my jeans and nowhere to put it, so I have to leave it there so I don't lose it.

@jeshin It's not like we've never been "politely asked" to not use an IP before. And while mechanics (IIRC) can't be copyrighted, almost everything else about a game system and its story can be.

@tinuviel I hate that two of my ten top upvoted posts is related to that damned meeting.

@Darinelle If one apologises simply from public backlash and not an actual desire to apologise, then it's hardly worth the keys it was typed on.

Though I wasn't specifically referring to this exact apology. I feel that far too many public apologies reek of "see I'm not a bad person" rather than "I am actually sorry for this thing I did." Especially some of the ones we've seen from certain fan favourites of the board, where it comes out "I'm sorry you got hurt from what I did but here's why what I did is okay and you're just sensitive."

ETA:

@kanye-qwest said in Apology to Darinelle:

i mean, you could not run your mouth like an asshole while thinking "take this constructively" at the top would change the intended read in some way. That's a solution.

To be fair, it did change the intended read. From "I am an asshole" to "I am an asshole with a socio-linguistics problem."