Posts made by Tyche

@Apos said in RL Anger:

But it's a lot better than @Tyche who is pretty much like, 'Oh yeah you guys being assaulted is bad and shit but you shouldn't talk so much about it and I doubt it happens nearly as much as you think and your experiences aren't valid. Whelp glad we wrapped up the systemic problems of sexual assault in one curt dismissal, let's move on.'

No I think your summary to be inaccurate.
I suggested that Emily Garland was peddling a load of bullshit.
Not all women.
I asserted that I wasn't the problem.
Then all hell broke lose.
The discussion turned to using twitter memes and emotions as arguments instead of reason and logic.
Then I learned that the only way I could be helpful was to participate in a great societal revolution to
revamp and overturn western civilization and the patriarchy.
Sorry I'm not really on board for all that.

I do have some advice though.
If you find yourself playing tabletop role-playing games with creeps.
Go find another gaming group or start your own.

On a bright note there is great news for feminists today.
I read we're going to put a gun-toting evangelical Christian Republican woman on the twenty dollar bill.
Yeah!

@Lithium said in RL Anger:

You just can't help yourself. I will explain since you are apparently unable to see why @Sunny would say such a thing:

Nobody is saying ALL Men are /anything/ just like nobody is saying all of any <insert subset here> is anything.

The reason it is so fucking offensive is because it is statements like that that are used as a shield against awareness. It's a response that serves no purpose because it deflects from the actual problem at hand, and that is that /some/ of these people /are/.

I am more than aware. In fact I specifically stated it earlier:
*Personally, I've never witnessed sexual harassment in the gaming community. That's not a denial that it does happen, just my own observation. I'm sure it does. I have personally seen it in the office, in night clubs and on the street, and not just from "straight white males".

I'm married, have a sister, four nieces, two daughters, a granddaughter, and many girlfriends in the past. A man doesn't get to be fifty (or even thirty) without knowing quite a few women who have experienced sexual assault and harassment. I don't do it. I don't tolerate it.

I read your earlier posts about your experiences and believe you to be sincere.
And yet I believe Ms. Garland lengthy diatribe is mostly bullshit.
There is no "some woman posts something about sexual assault and harassment on the internet and they must be believed rule" or you're an asshole. I reject that. I reserve the right to choose and form an opinion from what I've read. I gave a few of the reasons.

The real answer needs to be:

How do we make this problem go away?

If you mean rape and sexual assault then quite honestly... never.
I'm all for making rape a capital crime like capital murder.
But do you honestly think we'll ever stop murder or robbery?

If your mean sexual harassment then it really depends on what you mean. On one end of the scale it means putting actual creeps in their place ... on the other end of the scale it means killing all the worlds comedians and suspending free speech.

Aside:
None of my tabletop groups have ever played out a rape scene or even a sex scene and I dare say none of the convention events I've attended have ever featured rape or sex scenes. And yet rape/sexual assault scenes seem to be quite common on mushes. Now I'm one of a few odd birds who won't do TS at all and would never log into a place like Shangrila. If a higher percentage of mushers are women then why do they subject themselves to virtual sexual objectification there (and even sexual slavery and humilation like on Shangrila)? Same thing with men? What's up with that?

@Kanye-Qwest said in RL Anger:

@Tyche
Feel free to stop paying attention to the discussion. Everyone understands your position. We've already played "spot the MRA".

Neither I nor the guy in the video is an MRA. In fact looking at all the issues listed here on wikipedia, my response would either be a 'no' or 'don't care'.

@Sunny said in RL Anger:

Not ALL men, after all. (I recommend doing some reading as to why that objection for this topic is fucking offensive.)

Not all illegal immigrants are rapists.
Not all muslims are terrorists.
If objectively true statements are so offensive to you, then maybe you should check your premises.

@Thenomain said in RL Anger:

Irony and satire have their place, but I don't think this guy was very good at it. It was cute, and his point was made, but it was bland and way too long, undermining the satire. 2 out of 5 stars; would not recommend. Hate Videos are not a thing I go out to explore, but I bet there's someone who does a far better job of deconstructing the problem with Anitian Feminism.

I agree. It's only mildly amusing. I thought the hate reaction was something else though.
I guess people do that. Not only to women on the internet.

This porn star, for instance. (Don't worry, she's dressed, but she is discussing rape.) To summarize for people who are too tired to watch more of the back-and-forth name-calling, the short and succinct point she is making is that the deeper problem isn't being addressed by Anita et al.

I believe they are more interested in holding gaming companies responsible and/or hostage to some cause.

There's a picture of the offending miniature in this article which is an email interview with Emily Garland ( MiniatureGate? TabletopGate?
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/7/11371194/tabletop-harassment-malifaux-controversy

And a woman who plays the game posted the following:

"Being a member of the Wyrd community, I kind of saw this from the beginning. One of the big breaking points, believe it not, was a name. See Wyrd does (or did) open beta testing for each wave of miniature releases. The most recent had a character, a sort of sociopathic techno-necromancer, with the name Lizzie Lovelace, taken of course from Lizzie Borden and Ada Lovelace. The author of the article we're all discussing here had a massive reaction against this name because it is apparently similar to the name of a porn actress. She insisted point blank that it be changed. Now at the time she was just another poster in the community but the point of open betas is for everyone to be able to say their opinion. But the sheer hostility she had to the idea that the name was fine, that it was just a reference to two real-world figures who were big inspirations to a lot of Malifaux's fluff, was quite frankly staggering. This was also was the first time she began recounting many of her experiences. It wasn't a pretty time. It saw the Wyrd boards re-organised, rules tightened, and eventually even saw the name changed (to Anna Lovelace)." - Nightingale

I did not know any porn actress names, but now thanks to the above and @Thenomain I know three now.
Frankly, I don't see the causal connection between tabletop games/miniatures and sexual harassment/assault whatever.

Perhaps with a little more tabletop diversity...
Dungeons & Dragons & Bitches
We can make women more comfortable at these games.

Also, is a video of someone who is actually RL angry.

Speaking of "RL Anger", it would have been better that @Misadventure had started a different thread, because I can't follow discussion in this random one. Assuming it was meant for that.

IF men acted like FEMINISTS
IF men acted like FEMINISTS - Hate Mail

@Ganymede said:

@Tyche said:

I don't believe a single word he says either.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/02/13/the-wacky-world-of-wu-the-tortured-history-of-gamergates-self-styled-feminist-martyr/

And what of Felicia Day?

Yes I do believe her. Not a whiff of bullshit from her. It has nothing to do whether I agree with her.
However...
"Because odds are 99% certain that those guys on the street who I avoided would have been awesome to talk to. I realize that letting the actions of a few hateful people influence my behavior is the absolutely worst thing I could do in life. And not an example I want to set, ever."

Felicia and I do agree on this ... I AM NOT THE PROBLEM
Does anyone see the difference?

My opinion of Breitbart has fallen considerably after they refused to protect one of their own.

I'm on the fence over that one.

Might want to find a more reputable, honest source of information. Not that I think you'll succeed, mind.

Generally I use multiple sources of information. You might disagree with the point of view or context, but frankly the article is pretty much self-sourced from the person it is about.

@ThatOneDude said:

The recent turn in this thread reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GjyBuz2yOk

I don't believe a single word he says either.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/02/13/the-wacky-world-of-wu-the-tortured-history-of-gamergates-self-styled-feminist-martyr/

@Roz said:

@Tyche I am very, very curious to know exactly what parts you think are bullshit.

It's even harder to determine exactly what parts are true.

"Since July of 2015 fans of the game Malifaux have been attempting to overwhelm me with death and rape threats for no other reason than I am a woman who has opinions on the game. Wyrd Miniatures is silent on this matter and hangs up whenever anyone attempts to discuss the harassment. Given that a large number of threats identify the senders by name as Wyrd staff members, I do not find this surprising."

Here's the response of the owner of the company that was posted on reddit.

This is probably the main thread from the Malifaux forums which prompted the above (She is the poster known as Ferossa):
http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/109328-all-the-things-you-want-to-soapbox-andor-have-debate-about-in-malifaux

On it she claimed that...
"Within my local area, I know about 200 women who have left the gaming community due to the harassment and sexism."

Apparently this was primarily because of a single person who made private rapey threats.
It's the sheer exaggeration that rubs me the wrong way.

There are more posts by Ferossa on other threads making comments on different miniature lines which bemoan the ratio of male to female miniatures, the dress and attractiveness of said female miniatures, etc. A constant refrain by her reminiscent of those here by a certain poster bemoaning the lack of persons of color on mushes. One line she complained about was designed by a woman. I am casually acquainted with some of the company's line of miniatures and frankly compared to other companies they are more tasteful and do have more females.

"It is 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and hands are on my ass and breasts and all over my body. Groping, fondling, feeling whatever they please."

Actually one comment by a respondent on the Malifaux forum sort of summed it up for me.
"With all the things in your list that have happened to you it sounds like you play in a male prison."

And finally these two...
"The prominence of white male terrorism in the geek community is obvious to everyone except straight white men."

"White male terrorism is the white underbelly of the gaming community, meant to terrify and disrupt the lives of those who threaten the status quo by race, gender, or sexuality."

Isn't it sad that people get harassed online for their honest heart felt opinions? /sarc

I'm pretty sure I've attended just as many conventions and events as she has and I've probably played in more than a hundred RPG events. Every year there have been more and more women at these events. Personally, I've never witnessed sexual harassment in the gaming community. That's not a denial that it does happen, just my own observation. I'm sure it does. I have personally seen it in the office, in night clubs and on the street, and not just from "straight white males".

What I have witnessed frequently at various cons is every male head turning to admire scantily attired and attractive costumed females.
I'm guilty too. And if this is a sexual harassment crime, then 95% of men are going to wind up in prison.

@ShelBeast said:

There are parts that, admittedly, seem completely the result of over-exaggeration and/or pure fabrication...
...
But, even if the article is poorly written and exaggerated or even fabricated, in part or in entirety, there is a lot of truth to it, too.
...
What are your thoughts? Is my experience an altogether uniquely better one, or does it seem fairly standard?

Well I don't really enjoy the line of thought that even if it's not true, it's still true.
Yes women get raped and sexually harassed, however that doesn't make a particular woman who exaggerates and/or lies into some sort of noble hero.
Frankly it undermines and hurts the very "cause" she's advocating.

@Kanye-Qwest said:

It's interesting that people immediately jump to call "bullshit". And by interesting, I mean completely typical.

Someone posted a link to a list of typical responses. Couldn't find it but...
I don't find the argument that if you don't accept the position of the poster then you are part of the problem.
Just maybe the typical response is rationally skeptical.

@Arkandel said:

So this is a thing: Men give men a hard time. It's not to say girls can't be mean - to each other or otherwise - but the level of crudeness in an all-male conversation, which may but isn't necessarily about sexist stuff might surprise. For me to notice a guy is actually being a dick to someone he'd need to take it above that level, right? Because it's what puzzles me, since in my experience (I know, it's only my experience but what else do I have?) men are more restrained in the presence of chicks, not less so. That is, it takes most of my geekfriends far longer to think it's okay to say, swear around girls let alone joke around at anywhere near the same extent - and it's always more civil.

In my experience that is true. It is even more true in games played at conventions where people are even more restrained when playing with complete strangers, including men.

@Misadventure said:

http://latining.tumblr.com/post/141567276944/tabletop-gaming-has-a-white-male-terrorism-problem

Comments?

After reading that... I smell large amounts of bullshit.

@Arkandel said:

I clipped my thumb nail too far. Contact with the salt from my fries alone is not making my life more fun.

Now that is one of the peeviest peeves I have ever read here. Congrats.

@skew I don't think the law is going to be your main problem. I thought everyone had a gun in Chicago and it was a free fire zone. You can bet if the vampire is located in the hood their minions are going to be armed. Not to mention you're going to have to defend yourself from the local natives.

@skew What? No firepower in your general survival gear!?
These "monsters" usually have minions to deal with too.

@skew said:

So, back on topic, what is your defense penalized by when you grapple?

Ex: I roll a grapple "attack" to grab Steve and establish the grapple (which would be str + brawl - Steve's defense, yes?). Assuming, I pass, we will then roll the grapple (str+brawl vs str+brawl) during the next highest init. What if, between my grabbing Steve, and Steve and I rolling our grapple, someone walks up and hits me with me with a bat?

That question popped up just after I posted while we playing. We agreed that the defense would be reduced by 1 via the multiple attacker rules and moved on. However, we had some reservations on whether anyone in a grapple would have much of a defense against a third party.

BTW, we were playing the 2004 1st edition of NWoD. Hunter: The Vigil setting.

Thank you very much. That makes sense.

If a character is engaged in grappling, can you use All-out attack?
If so, do you lose your strength dice or defense dice on the next round?
If you lose your defense dice, there doesn't seem to be any penalty for all-out attack?

We never ran NWod before, so we're clueless.

I would down vote it if I knew what BITN stood for.

@Thenomain said:

Our group is small enough that this doesn't seem possible. I would rather simply have a thumbs-up and nothing else.

I noticed that a poster was so sensitive to the down vote that it was apparently effective to anonymously down vote a series of obsessive "medieval negro" posts without having to engage in the conversation at all.

What are you listening to?!

Real music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlTKhPkZSJo
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-vicuO1b0s

I believe the basic syntax for marking up your posts is based on Markdown.