Jun 1, 2017, 12:44 AM
"Wonder Woman was a little girl like me!" from a three year old.
RL things I love
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@Coin said in RL things I love:
On the other hand, Charging Bull is a symbol for the USA and especially Wall Street's "indomitable spirit", which in this case pretty much means (and cannot be more accurately represented) "we will rampage and thrash all over anyone in our way".
That wasn't Charging Bull at all.
http://chargingbull.com/chargingbull.html
"Arturo Di Modica first conceived of the Charging Bull as a way to celebrate the can-do spirit of America and especially New York, where people from all other the world could come regardless of their origin or circumstances, and through determination and hard work overcome every obstacle to become successful. It’s this symbol of virility and courage that Arturo saw as the perfect antidote to the Wall Street crash of 1986."
He made it to sort of mock Wall Street, if anything.
It was made for the people, not for the banks.Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Coin said in RL things I love:
@Thenomain said in RL things I love:
@Auspice said in RL things I love:
I know Fearless Girl really upsets the artist of the Wall Street Bull, which makes me hate it more. I wish it'd be taken down.
I'm of deep conflict on it. On the positive side, it brings a needed conversation to the fore. (Would've been even better if the girl were hispanic or black.) On the negative side, exactly what you and others have said. Wall Street may have hated the Bull when it was first installed but it was done with love for America and has become a strong symbol for Wall Street and New York; the Fearless Girl demeans that love and has become a strong symbol for the more tolerable (1st and 2nd Wave) Feminism.
On the other hand, Charging Bull is a symbol for the USA and especially Wall Street's "indomitable spirit", which in this case pretty much means (and cannot be more accurately represented) "we will rampage and thrash all over anyone in our way".
And, it is undoubtedly a /male/ symbol of USA and Wall Street. (There are no female bulls, man.) It's always been a male symbol, even before Fearless Girl. I remember seeing it as a teenager and absorbing it that way. The artist might have intended something different, but it's always really meant that for most of us women.
Fearless Girl might have accentuated it, but she didn't change it. That's what people are overlooking here. The artist took the hidden meaning that (some? most?) women saw in the statue and made it a conversation that might be uncomfortable, even if she was paid for it.
#FreeFarfalla
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It had nothing to do with selling a giant bronze idol that investors worship to the investors. Not at all.
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@Auspice said in RL things I love:
@Coin said in RL things I love:
On the other hand, Charging Bull is a symbol for the USA and especially Wall Street's "indomitable spirit", which in this case pretty much means (and cannot be more accurately represented) "we will rampage and thrash all over anyone in our way".
That wasn't Charging Bull at all.
http://chargingbull.com/chargingbull.html
"Arturo Di Modica first conceived of the Charging Bull as a way to celebrate the can-do spirit of America and especially New York, where people from all other the world could come regardless of their origin or circumstances, and through determination and hard work overcome every obstacle to become successful. It’s this symbol of virility and courage that Arturo saw as the perfect antidote to the Wall Street crash of 1986."
He made it to sort of mock Wall Street, if anything.
It was made for the people, not for the banks.Meritocracy is crap philosophy, to be honest. In any case, see @Meg and @Ganymede above.
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This is very much a part of a very old argument: Who gets to decide what art means? I bet you a dollar that had this been about Joss Wheedon, many of us here would be tripping over ourselves to defend him. We have already had this discussion while talking about fans getting angry at show creators for changing what they, the fans, expected. Who gets to decide?
I'm not disagreeing with anyone about what they believe the bull means. It's part of my dilemma. The man who created it was pulling from historical sources, out of his own pocket, to honor his adopted nation, I don't believe that anything he did was demeaning to women, so when someone is paid to say that he is, he has every right to be upset. He is essentially being given the middle finger other people co-opting his work. He wasn't even given a chance to clarify before this.
I truly believe that an artist has the right and sometimes the obligation to defend their thesis. Almost every art school drills this into them.
And this ties back to my RL Peeve above, that we can take this sense of equality too far. Are we? No, I don't think we are taking it too far, but I see shades of looking too shallowly at an issue because we don't like the original context.
Funny that the only person I agree with so far on this is the Communist. Meritocracy has serious, outstanding, dangerous issues. Nuff said.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@Thenomain said in RL things I love:
I'm not disagreeing with anyone about what they believe the bull means. It's part of my dilemma. The man who created it was pulling from historical sources, out of his own pocket, to honor his adopted nation, I don't believe that anything he did was demeaning to women, so when someone is paid to say that he is, he has every right to be upset. He is essentially being given the middle finger other people co-opting his work. He wasn't even given a chance to clarify before this.
I truly believe that an artist has the right and sometimes the obligation to defend their thesis. Almost every art school drills this into them.
This is why I've been bringing it up when people go into the whole 'the bull is a male banker symbol!' thing. A lot of people had never even heard of it before marketers and bankers paid to put 'Fearless Girl' there. And a lot of those who did didn't give two shits before that. I feel really bad for that artist.
He put his personal time, effort, and money into it. Gender was not a facet of the art when he made it (yes, bulls are male, but wasn't one of the 'points' he was trying to make). His work was coopted for something else. And yes, art is in the viewer's eyes, but it has been just utterly warped into a wholly different message and in a very scummy way, IMO.
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Convincing my adult sister that our first ever tattoos should be a sister tattoo. Also that it will be a symbol to combat depression, etc.
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"Wonder Woman was a little girl like me!" from a three year old.
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School is almost out! I love summer and having all my kiddos home, and deciding what we are going to do on the spur of the moment if we want. I love having a ton of teens and preschoolers over, sometimes at the same time.
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Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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@Auspice ...that is amazing.
Oh fucking well.
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@surreality said in RL things I love:
...that is amazing.
That reminds me of this letter that was sent by the Cleveland Browns long ago.
And here's the letter that precipitated such a response.
Lawyers are assholes, people.
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I am going to see Wonder Woman tonight, and I am beside myself. This is one of those movies you wait for your entire life to see hitting the big screen. The trailers alone almost brought me to tears. For a lot of women of my generation, Wonder Woman was our very first example of a woman who served a purpose that was something other than domestic.
I am literally having trouble finding words.
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Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
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I think it's fairly easy for me to say that art is defined by a mixture of who is perceiving it and who created it. You can't disentangle your art completely from its audience. I could put my poo on a pedestal and tell you that it is about the life cycle, but my audience doesn't have to take that explanation nor should I expect them to.
If I put my poo on a pedestal and explained that it was an experiment on how others perceive it, then yes, me saying that is going to affect how others process it and that's valid.
And I am telling you, when I saw a bull in the financial district (before Fearless Girl, I promise), there is no part of me that didn't think of the male-dominated Wall Street culture.
He can defend it all he likes; he does not get to say that the audience doesn't get to interpret his art in a different way through a different cultural lens based on the lives they've lived.
(And this feels like a necro. Sorry I didn't see it until just now!)
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Isn't it more about adding your commercial art with the appearance of guerrilla art to an actual guerrilla art piece?
I just assumed the bull represented a bull market as a concept, no connection to the jobs or identities or entities on Wall St.
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@Auspice said in RL things I love:
Does anyone know which Alamo Drafthouse held this event? I will be in the area next week and wish to offer them my patronage.
Not because there will be more women there and my chances of getting a date will be higher than normal.
Well, not just because that.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@Thenomain said in RL things I love:
@Auspice said in RL things I love:
Does anyone know which Alamo Drafthouse held this event? I will be in the area next week and wish to offer them my patronage.
Not because there will be more women there and my chances of getting a date will be higher than normal.
Well, not just because that.
Looks like it was all of 'em.
https://drafthouse.com/show/women-only-screening-wonder-woman -
So, I've added a bit of extra batshit insanity to my life:
That's two different approaches to three-player Chinese Chess.
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We can start a date Thenomain thread -- have I done this? I feel like I have done this in life. If so, did it work?