RL Anger

[surreality]

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

@surreality said in RL Anger:

As an addendum to the 'babe in the woods' thing: @Kanye-Qwest and I have certainly had our share of snarling at each other. She had a legit question about something a while ago that could be taken as this sort of thing -- but she did a damn fine job of being clear that wasn't her intention in any way and I had zero problem taking her at her word and made sure to say as much. If somebody has a genuine question, and isn't playing stupid 'gotcha' games, it's often very evident. Hence the 'I am not taking @kk's question as an innocent inquiry'.

Now, let me show you where I am confused.

Your response raises a whole bunch of questions:

• What "legit question" are you talking about?
• What do you mean by "this sort of thing"?

The legit question was an unrelated thing in another thread a while ago. @Kanye-Qwest and I have gone at each other before; it would be easy to take that question in a snarky light. She was clear that she didn't intend it that way, and I took her at her word that she had no ill intent, and the question was something she was legitimately curious about. I answered the question, made clear I could easily understand why someone would ask, and assured that I did not take it as anything nasty.

'This sort of thing' = asking a question that could be taken as an insult in sheep's clothing.

As far as I can tell, you went ape when @kk said:

I am quite baffled. I believe that you argued that threads shouldn't be derailed over this stuff and yet here you are four days later on another thread still complaining that people didn't like that word being used.

The accusation here is that you said that threads shouldn't be derailed over whether someone should or should not be insulted over something. You responded by saying, in paraphrase, that threads shouldn't be derailed unless you happen to be in the right forum for derailment.

...er, discussing things that make us angry RL in the RL Anger thread is not, in any way, derailing the thread. This shit makes people angry, RL. This is a thread for things that make people angry RL.

See where I'm confused? You want to avoid discussions of gender politics on game forums because you face it on a daily basis, and she apologized for doing so. And then she points out that you're engaging in a discussion (kind of) regarding sexist slurs, and you elect to find some sort of grudge in it. I understand that there's a difference here, but @kk literally hadn't said anything for five days, and not even in the same thread.

I think that's the disconnect.

I don't care if it's going on on the forum somewhere.

I am tired of it overriding every thread that is supposed to be about games.

I even suggested a thread be started to discuss instances of and issues with this on games -- which it does, and is a subject worth discussing, and which I wouldn't have done if I didn't think the topic should ever arise on MSB.

It's like the 4channers and their 'we're going to throw around slurs in every thread, which will instantly derail that thread into an argument about the use of that slur instead of the actual thread topic'. It's why I kept mentioning that particular crew and that tendency.

In their case, their 'cause' was a steaming pile of excrement, and in this one, the cause is one I actually support, but it doesn't change the fact that there's a commonality in an end result of many conversations or discussions that are arguably supposed to be about problems on a game becoming about that issue instead, and the 'good' or 'bad' of the cause doesn't really have any bearing on that 'instant override' being wearisome.

[Ghost]

I really do think we need to host a worldwide MSB meetup at a cheap hotel in front of a dirt field.

The amount of sex, violence, shade throwing, drinking, making new friends, and ending of existing friendships might either result in 2 years of awesome gaming or finally destroy the hobby.

[Auspice]

@Thenomain said in RL Anger:

@Meg said in RL Anger:

@Auspice was that at me. :x i'm sorry; i'll stop.

ETA: It's obvious that SOMEONE took one too many college philosophy classes.

Well I think it’s cute.

Wait, are we doing that date thing or not?

Edit: I suspect that Auspice is responding to this recent thread. “Leg” is my current body part insult of choice.

Just sort of the whole situation.

[mietze]

If the meetup is held in Seattle I'll make a couple of Jell-O shot cakes. Maybe even a whole one for WTFE.

[Meg]

@mietze I also require a whole cake of jello-o shots, and then I will be down.

ETA: IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE, iykwimaityd. budamcha.

[surreality]

If ever I win the lottery, I will totally hire Tina Turner to host some Thunderdome.

Maybe in a pool, though. With those foam floaty things that don't actually hurt when they hit you, but wow do they make great smacky noises when they land.

Chickenfights... to the death.

If by death, we actually mean 'the point at which somebody has to stop because they're too drunk, laughing too hard, or they run out of insulting words that are too ridiculous (shitgibbon, twatwaffle) to say aloud with a straight face.'

Losers can be made to walk the plank (read: diving board).

And anybody who actually grudgewanks people in person for dumb shit on the forum is simply not allowed in the bouncy castle, because fuck those people.

My lottery dreams are sort of weird like that, equal parts impossible pie in the sky and depressingly mundane at once.=

[Ghost]

Honestly, I think some people seeing others as people and not some assumed persona-trope would do wonders.

I know the list of people that don't like me, or that I've had spats with, and truly believe that the inability to sit down across a table and hash shit out like normal people makes things difficult. I'd totally be down to do jello shots with people that I've had beefs with.

I'd love to better see their perspectives and get off the laptop and be around some of you as people.

Just not @Ganymede . I hope she rolls around in the wrong patch of dirt and ends up needing a 2 hour botfly extraction at someplace really shitty, like an Urgent Care in Hoboken, New Jersey.

[Cupcake]

@mietze said in RL Anger:

If the meetup is held in Seattle I'll make a couple of Jell-O shot cakes. Maybe even a whole one for WTFE.

I can testify that @mietze's Jell-O shot cakes will knock you on the ground, and you won't get up again for hours.

It happened to me!

[mietze]

I have yet to meet any MUSHer in person regardless of whether or not I much care for them on games, and not like them. And I've met a ton of y'all.

Now it doesn't mean that even RL friends don't annoy the shit out of me sometimes in game. So it's not a panacea. Sometimes it makes the WTFery even worse.

Gany doesn't meet gamer people though so she'll just have to come in by drone.

[surreality]

@mietze Have to agree here. There are literally three people ever I've met from this hobby I had issues with in person: the dude who grabbed me and kissed me uninvited at a meetup (like seriously out of the blue just turn a corner, dude's there, grab, yeah... ) and Spider and her husband. And I still more or less got along with her husband well enough (not in any inappropriate way, before anybody decides to read something uncool into that) since he was around more and more or less kept to himself and tried to be helpful often enough. On the whole, the folks in this hobby are absolutely not wastes of hair and tend to be pretty fucking cool, no matter what weirdness goes on on games/on the forums.

[Ghost]

@mietze said in RL Anger:

Gany doesn't meet gamer people though so she'll just have to come in by drone.

Then I'm totally going to tell people I'm @Ganymede and she can deal with the awkward pages later.

[Sunny]

https://www.autonomous.ai/clone-telepresence-smart-office-robot

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@Ghost said in RL Anger:

I know the list of people that don't like me, or that I've had spats with, and truly believe that the inability to sit down across a table and hash shit out like normal people makes things difficult.

The difference between how people act IRL, when they actually have to own their shit to some degree (if, indeed, they own their shit, this isn't common IRL either, but it's an environment where you can be physically punched, which helps sometimes), is indeed staggeringly different than the way they act online when they're just being forum edgelords.

Anyway, we have no beef tangible, if this was a vagueblog at me. I actually said in my unhinged ALL-CAPS rant that I don't think you're a bad person. I do think your lack of self-awareness is pretty damn staggering a lot of the time, so maybe stay away from that as a criticism of other people. Or don't, I'm the boss of no one.

ETA: I meant every word of the unhinged ALL-CAPS rant and own it happily. Don't misunderstand.

[Deleted]

I make it a point to never type anything I wouldn't say to someone's face.

[Ghost]

@Three-Eyed-Crow Nah, that wasn't a vaglueblog at you. You said how you felt.

I could type for hours about who I think I am vs. who you think I am, but at the end of the day, I don't think either of us know each other truly well enough to make any accurate judgments.

But being someone who was sick of someone else's shit at the time, I can't really cry foul when someone got sick of my shit, can I?

Nah, no hate/beef here on my end. I recently make a move to give some people who are at odds with me a little extra space. Is what it is.

[kk]

@surreality

I had no intention of personally attacking Surealilty. I still have no intention of personally attacking her. I do not believe that most people would take my above words as a personal attack. Despite such, I respect surreality’s right to take my words a personal attack.

I a do not have a grudge against surreality and did have one against her. I try not to hold grudges and when I do it is generally over far more serious reasons.

I do not have strong feelings for or against surreality. I don’t know her. I do not respect the way her most recent posts here were worded, but this lack of respect is no serious thing and is not leading to grudges, upset or a desire to personally attack.

In terms of innocence. I never claimed innocence on this board and I don’t think anyone has on my behalf. An innocent lamb, I believe was said? That is not something that I am or aspire to be. That being said, I don’t think committed some great crime in speaking up here. I am finding surreality to be hypocritical. She can take that a personal attack if she wishes. But I find that she goes off on me for posting or speaking my mind, all while posting a lot of and speaking her mind with a lot less self-restraint.

[surreality]

@Admiral said in RL Anger:

I make it a point to never type anything I wouldn't say to someone's face.

I'm not doubting you personally in the following, please note.

A lot of people say this. A lot of us ('us' because I aspire to this but I don't think I get there) think we do this, but... it ends up being 'not really as much as we think'.

Partly, this is because shit doesn't escalate nearly as quickly when tone and expression enter the picture; misunderstandings are less common than they are in text alone when you're sitting in a room talking to someone. When you land a word bomb on somebody that horrifies them or disgusts them, you're going to see it on their face more often than not, and then you'll adjust (or not, in some cases) without the need for an text-based expression of this.

A shocked look is obvious and easy to interpret. Conveying this in text, on the other hand?

• "That you said X is shocking!" - is pretty neutral, but if the initial speaker doesn't think they said anything shocking, there's brewing grounds for an argument here that likely would never happen RL.
• "Don't you know how awful X is?!" - again, pretty neutral in terms of any sort of personal attack beyond the other person potentially thinking their intelligence or whatever else may be being questioned, but if they don't think it's awful... yeah, potential for argument. Seeing an expression, nobody would feel you insulted their intelligence/manners/upbringing/enlightenment/etc. whereas this relatively neutral statement can create that impression.

...I think you can see where this is going.

It isn't just the snarky shit, either. There are positive, good, wholesome, caring things people feel comfortable doing or saying 'anonymously' that they might not be as brave about if they were looking someone in the eye. A good many, in my experience.

@kk Yes, I do, actually, consider being called a hypocrite a personal attack.

I do not believe I'm behaving in that manner at all, which, again, has been explained in the interim. I'm not going to make any guesses this time as to whether or not you've read the intervening posts or not. tl;dr: I don't think posting about an RL issue that pisses us off in a thread about RL issues that piss us off is out of place or at all inappropriate, not even a little.

I see absolutely no inherent contradictions there to warrant your conclusion. As mentioned to @Ganymede, if I didn't think it was a valid topic of conversation ever, I would not have suggested a thread dedicated to the topic, specifically, be started. Obviously, people have plenty to say about it, and experiences to share.

I am annoyed when these things take over thread after thread about games, and I am absolutely allowed to say so when it happens. You are as welcome to speak your mind as I am, and I've never said otherwise. I don't even think otherwise.

Nobody accused you of a crime, for fuck's sake.

Really, you didn't even have enough self-restraint to read the rest of the thread before throwing in your comment, so I'm frankly not impressed by your self-restraint at all.

[kk]

You didn’t use the word crime exactly, no. Here is what was said.

Surreality - “Stay classy keeping up with the personal attacks and grudgewanky bullshit while everybody else has generally been talking like grownups, I guess. I'm not the one who brought it the fuck up.
P.S. This isn't the a game-related forum, genius. This is the 'RL Anger' thread, where this topic is abso-fucking-lutely appropriate.”

Here you said I personally attacked you, that I have a grudge, that my words are bs, that everyone else is talking like a grownup (but not me) and you sarcastically called me a genius.

Surreality “<headpat> Sure. In an appropriate place to do so, where it isn't derailing the thread. Because the thread is about dumb shit that pisses the collective 'us' off.”

There you gave me a condescending headpat as if I were a child to be dismissed.

Surreality “The point remains, you charged in here and tried to sling around some shade and made a fool of yourself in the process. Own it, realize nobody gives a shit, nor should you, really, and move the fuck on.”

There you accused me flinging stuff around and said I made a fool of myself.

Whether or not your above comments about me or true or not, I believe it is hard to deny that you went off on me for making the statement that I did.

[surreality]

@kk You are absolutely right that I am slinging shit at you after your initial remark, which, yes, as I have repeatedly stated: I consider being called a hypocrite a personal attack.

And yes, actually... I do think you made a fool of yourself by not reading through the thread before you replied. You would have found the answer to your second question there, and seen people discuss it openly and with an eye toward mutual understanding of one another.

Basically, your eagerness to call me a hypocrite was apparently so strong -- for whatever reason, grudge or no grudge -- led to a case of foot-in-mouth.

Normally, I'd feel bad for somebody who did this, because nobody enjoys an 'egg on face' moment from this kind of goof (innocent or otherwise), but, really, the reason it happened in this case means I have no sympathy whatsoever.

I don't deny I went off on you. I don't have to. I'm as allowed to say I think you made a fool of yourself in your eagerness to call me a hypocrite as you are to make the claim in the first place. This isn't a case of me arguing that the rules are different for me than they are for you -- it's a case of me insisting I have the same right to sling shade at you. You don't have to like it.

...you do realize that now you're admitting you were trying to call me out as a hypocrite, but since you didn't mean it as offensive -- which... I don't know how calling someone a hypocrite isn't offensive, but whatever floats your boat, I realize this varies and that's cool? But I'm... supposed to feel bad for slinging shit back at you? I'm thinking no.

Yeah, I don't see the big deal about 'having to deny' that I went off on you, because I don't have to. I'll just repeat what was said to me: "So?"

[kk]

@surreality

You might not have started the conversation, but you were still talking about it and even went as far as to say that we said people had to be offended when we did not.

I didn't start the conversation on the other board and you still got on my case about it there.

I never said you were suppose to feel bad. Be proud of it for all I care, but you were as you admitted to, going after me.