Posts made by Cobalt

@Melpomene said:

@Cobaltasaurus I hate to say it, but it's precisely because users aren't coders that I believe they want a web-based, or at least web-like, solution. They take one look at aJobs' code and quit, and by default, it doesn't do exactly what they want it to, so they all want/need at least small changes. Forums and point-and-click are way more intuitive. No having to remember the typed-out commands, no confusion between staff role and player role jobs... and if it works right, you even get those phone notifications people like. Wheeeeee.

You're right. The average end user of aJobs would probably prefer a web-based solution. My point (which was worded extremely poorly, my apologies) is more that it isn't an active want that I come across. I don't have get people saying: "I wish this was web based", because most of them aren't in tech support/other custom service support rolls with a computer based webpage. So many of them don't know that there are fair better ticket tracking solutions out there -- just web ones.

However, I also don't have much experience outside of nWoD games were aJobs seems to be part and parcel these days, and so many nWoD staffers have all already staffed on other nWoD games, so they're all familiar with the +command side of the code, and I don't often hear the first impressions of +jobs.

@Coin said:

@Cobaltasaurus

I make everyone use jobs because it's a good way to have things documented. But I, as staff, if I have the time, prefer to talk to people in pages about things and then just add the conversation to the job.

Sorry, I guess my post was kinda preachy.

To be clear, I'm not knocking the people who do these things. There isn't a better alternative right now. But aJobs very often gets used for things it is not good at. aJobs is not very good at keeping things private between one player and one staffer, if that is a case that needs to happen. RE: The beginning TR jobs were VASpider and her ilk would read +complaint jobs that only HeadStaff was supposed to read, before they got custom locks put on the bucket.

The 'talk to the player and then document in job' is a pretty good method. Especially if you have an SQL archival forum setup because yes, documentation is really important on mushes. Considering the amount of staff turn over games get.

Another example: aJobs is a pretty poor place to store player "off-grid"/"out-of-scene" rolls. Not because of documentation but because it gets spammy. Until another system is coded to add to it -- where players can get a roll report inserted into the job, the roll results can be so spammy it's easy to lose track of what everything says.

I guess the big problem with aJobs is that it's not meant/not good at alot of the stuff that it has slowly been evolved/changed/morphed into doing over various games. People want a way to track rolls? Do it in a job! People want a way to track complaints? Do it in a job! People want a way to track battery-stat spends? In a job. Etc. etc.

@Groth, @Melpomene: Your average musher/staffer isn't going to be a real life coder, or even in tech support. So while 'I wish it was web-based' might be helpful, I don't think (I could be wrong) that that is what the overall day-to-day user wants out of ajobs.

Some of the problems with ajobs:

• It is really hard to customize unless you have some mu* coding experience. Your typical admin isn't going to be able to go in and change the permissions / mail defaults / etc for buckets for example. So if they want to set up a bucket of jobs that is public/visible to everyone in a sphere/group/etc so people can communicate through +job then someone is going to have to tell them how to lock a bucket to a specific sphere or players with a certain attribute, etc. Or they will need a coder on game to do it for them.

• aJobs is really good for tracking an ongoing conversation. Every comment, every action, to the job is marked down. This can make long conversations between players and staff really easy. Have something to say but can't wait around thirty minutes for a response? Leave it in the job. You can come back and look at the response later. It's also reallysomewhat good about notifications on the conversation. What with /mail and the * and 'new' statuses. It isn't very good at archiving those conversations for later. Unless you have an SQL / Web Forum Archive set up. Which not everyone knows how to do. @Thenomain has a tutorial up on this but I haven't attempted it, frankly, that's a bit over my head. So if I have a problem with it, I know other mu* staffers will. (Not saying I'm some genius but relying on the principle from my classes lately 'if you're confused, chances are someone else is too'.)

• aJobs is a somewhat okay system for tracking what staff (and sometimes players) should be doing. You can log in and say: 'Oh, someone wants to be approved to play. Let me look at their characters'. Or you can see that a player wants to have a conversation with you. On games where custom buckets have been setup for players who have extra "duties", they can log in and see: "Oh, JoeBob has requested a scene with X Y Z details. That sounds fun, let me do that!" or "Oh, SarahBeth is confused about wikifoo, I can help setup her wiki!". (Examples from darkwater, we had a special player & staff plot pocket where players who volunteered to be STs could see other player plot requests. And a bucket setup for staff & players for wiki questions / concerns, where we had players who volunteered to help with the wiki).

  • ajob is not very good at organizing those things you need to do. Yes, it can say 'this job is overdue' or 'this job is labeled important'. But it doesn't have an easily accessible function to tell you: 1) how many jobs you have, 2) how many are overdue, 3) how many are new, 4) how many are by the same person, 5) what types of job each one is, 6) any other question you might have about those jobs.

• aJobs is not good for immediate back-and-forth communication, but staff use it that way anywise in places.

• aJobs is not good for private voting or private discussions were multiple people, but people use it that way anywise.

• aJobs is not good for handling player complaints / concerns, but people use it that way anywise.

• Frankly, aJobs (imo) is good for any sort of administrative 'i need x y z done', or 'lets talk about details of a plot' or 'can i have this'. It probably shouldn't be used for social issues, things that can be handled immediately, or private/sensitive matters.

@Thenomain and I did a bunch of talking and made some progress on the code. Staff will now also be able to set custom fields for 'staff info' (it'll require a little bit of code knowledge, but I'll probably leave some tips in the code).

@Quibbler said:

On a related note, I always wanted a quick way to see if my alts had any new @mail and/or check on the last time they were connected. I wound up making a custom command to +finger all my alts but it was still spammier than I liked.

Very belatedly my +Alts code has that. But I need to update / fix that code. But I'll work on this +finger first. ...which I seem to have lost the majority of my work. sob

So @Thisnameistaken, @Derp: I got busy RL and got distracted. Are you guys available this sunday at 12pm PT / 3pm ET?

@Groth said:

Rewriting the logic that determines if a comment is shown or not does exactly what you want it to do and is very easy to implement.

I can't tell if you're an alien, arrogant, or just not all that experienced with aJobs. Making changes to aJobs is never very easy to do. There are so many pieces spread out over so many different objects, and odd little fiddley bits that it is very hard to determine when you change something how it is going to affect a different bit of aJob code down the line.

I guess. What I really want to say is:

Please tone back the "this is easy!" attitude. It might be easy for you, but it isn't necessarily for everyone else with an interest in changing/editing aJobs.

That said:

@Alzie: A better +job/+track/+ticket system as something I've wanted to do for years but never quite found the time/giveafuckenough to actually do it. So if you'd like someone to throw ideas around at, feel free to hit me up.

Modern day, usually plenty of people, and wide variety of concept types.

@sthanheykel said:

As I've said in my other post in 'A Shout in the Dark':

@sthanheykel said:

I've created this google group in order to discuss about a possible game and gather a real staff. If anyone feel like contributing, just join it and hopefully we'll have a working game in a few months.

I'm in need of people capable of making this a real game, anyone who is a bit more experience with coding, some people willing to ST or just wanting to give some help is more than welcome. Also, if you have any suggestions or inquires about the project, feel free to ask.

I'd be happy to help with minor code (nothing major and involved), and eventually story telling.

@Groth said:

Just keep in mind your solution means all +myjob/add comments are published which may or may not be desired behaviour.

Yes, I'm aware of that fact. I had coded up a +myjob/padd (private-add) that allowed people to post to a multi-user job privately.

However, I agree with Thenomain on the poor design of it. 'cc' means it should be visible to everyone. Frankly, you shouldn't be using +jobs/+myjobs for anonymous voting. If you want that you should probably code a +vote system that allows for actual anonymous voting. +myjobs doesn't do that very well. Frankly, there's too much visibility.

"Staff can see who voted what", btw, is not anonymous voting.

I made it. Well very likely the version you're using. Either that or potentially @Loki or @chime. And this bug is one that happened after AnomJobs V5, I think? The original +myjob/cc I made for DW worked fine, however after the code changes to the latest version of AnomJobs the outdated +myjob/cc apparently got broken.

I think I fixed it recently on Reno, and may have informed someone how to fix it but I can't remember who.

Oh! HR, that's right. @HelloRaptor and I recently discussed the issues with it. Here's what I ended up doing on DW to patch it:

TRIG_MYADD: think [setq(0,default(%0/NUM_COMMENT,1))][setq(1,last(grab(get(%0/LIST_JOBSN),%2|*),|))][setq(2,edit(%1,|,@@PIPE@@))][ifelse(eq(dec(%q0),%q1), set(%0,LIST_JOBSN:[setunion(remove(get(%0/LIST_JOBSN),%2|%q1),%2|%q0)]),)][ulocal(FN_ADDSTAT,%3,%va)][ulocal(FN_ADDSTAT,%3,%0)][ulocal(FN_ADDSTAT,%3, parent(%0))];&COMMENT_%q0 %0=%3|[secs()]|%2|[name(%2)] [ifelse(u(%va/FN_HASATTRP,parent(%0),ALETTER_%3),u(%va/FN_STRTRUNC,u([parent(%0)]/ALETTER_%3,%0,%2,%q2),get(%va/BUFFER)),u(%va/FN_STRTRUNC,%q2,get(%va/BUFFER)))];&NUM_COMMENT %0=[inc(%q0)];&MODIFIED_ON %0=[secs()];&MODIFIED_BY %0=%2;@trigger parent(%0)/HOOK_%3=%0,%2,[parent(%0)],%1;@trigger %va/TRIG_POST=%0,%3,%2,%1;@trigger %va/TRIG_MAIL=%0,%3,%2,%1;@set %0/comment_%q0=no_inherit

Onto the JD.

And then changed +myjob/add on the jgo to trigger trig_myadd, instead of trig_add.

This is what I came up with at the time because of the way trig_add works. I think the issue I ran into was if I didn't do it that way, then the entire job would be revealed -- even staff comments. I might be able to come up with something better sometime, nebulously, in the future ...

But anomjobs is a mess. The way comments are made is infuriating to poke at.

darkwater.mechanipus.com 8000.

@Thisnameistaken, @Derp, @SG -- I think I'm going to do it next Thursday at 5pm PT? / 8pm ET? If that's too late for folks, I can do it Friday instead. Thursday is when I am officially free (eh he, for about a week).

: |

(Not sure if this is the right category, but sticking it here. @Glitch can move it if he likes.)

I think I'd like to run on-game coding lesson for folks (MUX) for some of the building blocks of learning to code. If you're interested please let me know! I'm not positive when specifically I'll do it. I've got finals week next week, and not sure how much of this weekend will be spent studying.

But a basic itinerary of what we will do:

• Learn these functions:
  • lwho()
  • iter()
  • name()
  • objeval()
  • ljust(), rjust(), center(), repeat()
  • ansi()
  • u()
  • loc()
  • get()
• Learn about the following subjects:
  • how to call code/make code so it can be used
  • permissions
  • bit-types
  • responsible ansi use.
  • visual formatting
  • delimiters

(Potentially more, but those I know for sure we'll go over.)

The project will be to code a +who, but once you have each function "mastered" you should be able to apply them to other projects.

• ETA: After we have these class, I'll post a log of it to this thread so those who can't make it can see it.

This won't help you @2mspris, not for making a map of the US/World --

But I found this while looking for a tool to make dungeon / building maps for a d20 game.

http://deepnight.net/tools/tabletop-rpg-map-editor/

Okay those pieces are in. I'm not mushing right now, but if anyone has any questions, suggestions, or whatever I'd be glad to update this tutorial.

So it looks like the last two items are the object and exit lists of the room parent. Are there anything else I'm missing?

I can probably has those out in a little bit. This got pushed onto the back-burner, and then I stopped mushing so I kind of forgot about it. : [

But I'll fix it!

: ]

@Jeshin said:

Project Redshift is the Evennia Project yes. It is a scifi MUD that will be released in 2016/2017 and is currently in development. The game will be an exploration based game with warpships traveling out from a Generational vessel (Seedship) to find planets both habitable and resource rich and possibly alien species.

I love you for naming it "Project Redshift", but my cold dead heart refuses to suspend her disbelief that space travel is possible in anyone's lifetime. : (

That aside, I'd be really interested in learning what sort of science and pseudoscience you're putting into the theme of it. (I've dipped my toes into AstroPhysics this college term and find it incredibly interesting, but am nowhere near an expert in it).

@silentsophia said:

I resemble that remark. And it sucks. It's part of why 'awww, did your parents not hug you enough?' as an insult annoys me.

"Children are be seen, not heard." sets me off probably about as much as "did your parents not hug you enough" does you. : |