Posts made by Coin

There is also the problem of patience.

Most people do not have any, when it comes to feeling left out. So if a staffer who runs shit for everyone is currently concentrating on a specific plot that a specific group is the center of, someone outside of the plot will complain that they want plot too, but if it isn't given to them relatively soon, the conclusion they draw is that it never will.

As a storyteller, I like to tell stories from beginning to end and not start a shitload of things and then never end them, so it ends up looking like I am focusing on one group to the exclusion of others... because I am... at the moment.

And it's fucking annoying.

@Auspice said in The 100: The Mush:

I'm also seeing a lot of 'Well, in the show, it's common for people to behave this way...' Maybe this is just a bad setting for a MU. Maybe folks should write fanfic instead and play games that encourage being cooperative (you can still be a dick, while being totally inclusive; there's a PC that does that extremely well on a game I'm on right now).

Or maybe it's not a setting or a game for everyone.

I don't even play there, for the record, but I see this with a lot of games, where people just don't fit in with a game's culture decide it is the worst game or a bad game. It may be--for them.

Sometimes all you can do is accept it's not a good fit.

@mietze said in Pretendy Fun Time Games:

I do my best to not take anything personally. However I don't really care to invest as much time in selfish people either (which is why I walk pretty easily or don't get involved anymore). I think probably as a hobby we want to encourage less selfishness overall, but eh. I'm wrong perhaps. Telling people to suck it up feels great, but I'm not sure it encourages the type of community/environment that's good for the long run. Perhaps that too is kind of meh who cares though.

No one said it was a complete solution, nor that it was easy.

Going back to my car analogy: just because cars aren't meant to be used for killing doesn't mean we don't have laws against using them for that. So having a community that bucks against asshole behavior and having rules to prevent assholes from being abusive is perfectly reasonable even within the paradigm of "it's just Pretendy Funtime Games". It's not a solution, it's a defensive tactic. Nothing about it prevents us from also exploring a change in the social make-up of the hobby.

@Arkandel said in Pretendy Fun Time Games:

@Coin A guy today asked me for permission to write a story in which he's using one of my 20-year old characters. When I explained I didn't care he said it'd have bugged him if someone had done it to his characters.

The thing is though, letting what we have no control over affect us is giving a lot of power over us to other people. And a lot of the drama generated in games like ours could have been broken down to "stuff that doesn't affect us in any measurable way" if not for the fact we allow it to.

Maybe he meant if someone had done it without asking.

It would bug me if someone used my character for a story without asking, but only inasmuch as it would feel pretty personal. It probably wouldn't be the same if I published some novel and people went out and wrote fanfiction. There's a different level of attachment and connection.

Then again, I'd only say "no" if it was someone I thought was a douche. >.>

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Pretendy Fun Time Games:

Only person I have any control over is me, which has always been a liberating thing to keep in mind for me, even if it's also frustrating.

I think this is essentially what Wade's "PFG" diatribe at the end of the post is about.

The only person you can control, is you. So isn't it better if you don't put enough weight on this hobby that it rules your emotions, and instead treat it with the detachment that you need while still being able to enjoy it?

There are two things to consider, and they are not minor:

1. While the post is structured as an instructive piece of "how to avoid Internet Drama", it's actually very much a rant. It was not, in my opinion, meant to be gospel nor the quotable piece of internet that it has become. It's a rant. Someone got up Wade's butt and he ranted. is it unfortunate that people take it as gospel? Sure. Does that mean it doesn't have solid ideas? Nope. But looking back at it, Wade is not being nice because he's fed up. He ranted, and many, many people identified with his rant. It happens.
2. Keeping the above in mind, let's remember that there is a distinct difference between the people the post is directed to (i.e. people who are otherwise pretty decent and who just get up in arms and are maybe a little too paranoid and easily riled up) and the assholes who would use "it's just a game" to justify their behavior. The difference, I believe, is that the former group can be reached by a post like this one--or other, similar discussion strategies--and it may help them create a barrier between their hobby and themselves that will help them enjoy it without falling into a spiral of drama; meanwhile, the latter group is composed of assholes. And assholes are assholes, and while some assholes do eventually stop being assholes, it's nev er because some wordy fucker on the internet decided to be snarky about it. He doesn't mention the assholes who would use PFG to justify themselves because there's no point, other than to say, "hey, if any assholes are out there reading this, don't use PFG as an excuse to be an asshole," which would have been fine, but is hardly a requirement on Wade's part, given point 1. ETA: The PFG defense is a personal defense, in this instance, to keep yourself inured to the ravishes of assholedom; it's a way for you to put up a wall and be able to continue enjoying a game despite assholes and other undesirable situations. That assholes use it for other means is the equivalent of people using cars to kill people. Yeah, they can. But ... that's not the purpose of an automobile.

@Tez -- it's only the last bit of it that really underlines the "it's just a game". The first half of the post, especially the Passive Aggression section, does stress that politeness and civility are key.

It's just that the post is geared towards people who take offense and then blow it out of proportion, and doesn't single out jerks. But the sentiment of it is pretty clearly--at least in my opinion--that being a dick isn't acceptable regardless of who you are or why, and that being a dick ona Pretendy Funtime Game is, essentially, worthless of consideration.

It takes a dramatic person to get super butthurt over Pretendy Funtime Games; it takes a complete asshole to ruin Pretendy Funtime Games for others, but that doesn't mean that they are anything but PFG, and that you shouldn't let it ruin your experience.

@faraday said in Shadowrun: Modern:

@Thenomain Morality and legality are not always in alignment. Corporations make the laws in SR, but what they do is by no means always just - often far from it. And even a corporate or mercenary 'runner team, while not being the SINless criminals that traditional 'runners are, often operate extra-legally.

Legality is matter of power, not justice.

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

Cat.

Cat decided having less than 30% food in her bowl wasn't acceptable at 4 am. She came and whined at me until I fixed this atrocity.

Then as I was drifting back to sleep she was of course gobbling it up like a fool so, as usual, she threw half of it out again. But that made her feel bad! So she came and whined at me to pet her so she'd feel better... at 4:30 am.

I should surely be sainted since, when I finally managed to get up to my alarm in the morning bleary eyed and stumbling about only to see her blissfully asleep on a couch I didn't wake her up out of pure spite.

I would have.

Teach that furball a lesson.

@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:

This isn't just about SuperMan though, it's about the fact that there are limited plots.

When there are limited plots, there is a very high chance that there will be an FC involved who can just overwhelm the problem and the OC's have nothing to really shine while doing.

In a true open world where there was infinite plots and things going on all the time then yeah OC's might have a place alongside the FC's but...

That isn't fucking reality.

Anyone trying to claim that there are enough plots and scenes going around all the time that the FC's can't, and won't, be involved in is literally sticking their head in the sand and living in a dream world of their own creation.

@Coin got to play an OC with power on a scale of an FC being a Skrull Green Lantern, congratulations, you got to be the special snowflake.

He was pretty background, actually.

Most OC's don't get that chance or opportunity getting shut down and even when they are approved, they usually cannot meaningfully impact any scene that has FC's running around in it.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand, MU'ing is not a perfect environment. Every story does not get told. Things are not equal.... unless everyone /is/ given the same starting rules, and FC's are /built/ with the same rules as OC's.

But that doesn't seem to happen in my experience.

EDIT: And fuck you @Coin for saying I want my OC's to be as powerful as Superman. Way to try a bait and switch with an insult to go with it.

Hey, fuck you right back, maybe express yourself clearly so people don't misinterpret. Also, fuck you twice, because I pointed out that my interpretation wasn't necessarily what you meant, but that it's how you were coming off. My fucking bad for giving you the benfit of the doubt. Holy shit.

@Coin said in Marvel: 1963:

It really just kind of feels like you're saying "why bother if I can't make my OC as strong as Superman or Wonder Woman", which I personally think is an absolutely backwards way of approaching this discussion.

I'm not saying you mean to say that, but that's what it reads like.

I bolded it so you don't miss it this time. Jeez.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin Uh, your face is silly, but you don't see me bringing THAT up.

And sure. I could also sit in my room and draw comics tailored around a character named Squirrel Girl that make her undefeatable. The point of playing on a game is often to experience story spun out by someone else, in a more personal and interactive way than reading a book, right?

It's definitely not impossible to find that tailored for whoever on a game, sure. But is it likely there will be plenty of times where Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, or Green Lantern show up and save the day during that storytelling? Yup.

This argument has the same problem @Lithium's does: I'm just saying it's possible. I never said it was super common or anything like that. But, shocker, our hobby requires digging through some coal to find a diamond--be it WoD, CofD, Star Wars, Superheroes, or Haven.

I mean, you might be digging forever in Haven, but I would never take away your hope.

I might laugh a little.

But I wouldn't take away your hope.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin

here's the thing: if you're playing an OC on a superhero game, a hero that can't be as strong or cool as Superman, but Superman is actively played?

What are the odds you are ever going to get that cool moment of being the guy to Win The Day, if Superman can just fly up and shoot bricks out of his eyes to repair a wall?

Tons. You know why? 'Cuz Superman can't be everywhere at once, and 'cuz Superman's player isn't going to be online 24/7 waiting to snatch victory away from you like a malevolent dick, and most of all, because superhero games tend to be very story-driven and consent-based, which means it's relatively easy to tailor a scene in a way where you can save the day.

God damn, this question is silly. It's like asking "how can any character in DC comics ever save the day if Superman can just [... etc.]" Gee, I don't know, but it sure does seem to happen.

@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin And my point is that your experiences do not represent the totality of anything /either/.

But I didn't express them as such. I did not say "OCs and FCs can always interact on the same level in every game". I said, "it's possible, I've seen people enjoy it and do it".

You, on the other hand, present it as an impossibility.

There is a difference.

@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin The fact that people STILL play on Brave New World and Haven means people WILL play anywhere. It has no weight at all.

I can play anything on any freeform place if I wanted to, just because you played a Skrull Green Lantern somewhere doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of thing.

We're talking in circles now, so I'll just say that my experiences do not in any way resemble yours. The games I have tried to play on, are not magical worlds of equality where OC's are just as in demand as FC's for RP and scenes and plots, apparently you have found this magical world.

Give me the address so I can see for myself please.

[sigh] Now who's missing the point?

Look, I get it, you've had a horrible experience on superhero games because you wanted to play OCs and no one you played with gave a shit. But your experiences are not the totality of all experiences, and my point is that you present them as such. That's it.

@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin You're choosing to miss my original point then:

If the FC's are 'Featured' /and/ more 'Powerful' than any OC can EVER be, then what is the point of trying to be involved as an OC?

Telling a story with the character you want to play. Power levels have nothing to do with it. The word 'Featured' is just a descriptor to indicate they are canon characters from the source; it does not, typically, indicate they are "more important" in any official capacity other than to indicate that other people may want to play them and if you are going to, please be active.

It's just another reason why FC's and OC's don't really mix.

In your experience. In mine, they do. You keep saying they don't as if it's a universal truth, but it's not. I can say with certainty that I have seen people play FCs and OCs interchangeably and together on games and enjoy it. That is proof that it can happen. That you haven't is not proof that it can't.

P.S. I once played a Skrull Green Lantern. So. You know.

@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin said in Marvel: 1963:

@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:

It's a lot to overcome. I'd love to see the Marvel world brought to life in a game, the 60's is interesting also, but I'd prefer it if the FC's weren't available for play and people created their own characters and stories. If there was ever a universe that had room for OC's, it's Marvel's.

I'm not sure why Marvel has more room than DC or other universes.

In any case, I think the niche theme will probably help the people who do play focus on characterization and how to interpret characters.

But I am also a really big fan of alterante realities and stuff, so maybe that's just my jam.

There's a /huge/ difference in power between FC's and what is available for OC's in the DC universe. Superman, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, they are huge power wise and there is no chance for an OC to be the same power level as them. Even the rest of the Justice League has nothing to really step up with except for possible Captain Atom and a few others... which are just more FC's. Not even gonna touch Batman here.

Marvel's got some pretty powerful beings, but they're not on Earth most the time, so the big bads aren't always flying around and doing things every day. The most iconic for Marvel are people like Captain America (or used to be), The X-Men, Fantastic Four, and spider-man who are powerful but not unapproachable by OC's.

So in the DC universe OC's are generally even /worse/ off than Marvel when it comes to having OC's be relevant. The power gap is less a thing for Marvel OC's on most games (Strong people in Marvel toss around 100 tons, not counting a few outliers. Strong people in DC toss around hundreds of thousands of tons).

That's what I mean.

I was going to make a list of the first ten ridiculously powered Marvel characters I could think of, but I reconsidered because essentially you´re saying you think Marvel has better possibilities for OCs because DC's heroes are too strong and OCs don't reach those levels.

My response to that is: so what? That has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the possibility for OCs exists. Not to mention that given that the vast majority of superhero / comic book games are consent-only, the power disparity is essentially window dressing. Your character is as effective as needed to tell a good story--you know, like in the comics, i.e. the reason why Batman is ever considered capable of taking on Superman, for example.

It really just kind of feels like you're saying "why bother if I can't make my OC as strong as Superman or Wonder Woman", which I personally think is an absolutely backwards way of approaching this discussion.

I'm not saying you mean to say that, but that's what it reads like.

I suspect Uber will not work out here.

If you think the Taxi mob is tough in New York, you definitely haven't experienced cabs in Buenos Aires.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin Pity upvote since you spent all that time researching.

I'll take it.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Marvel: 1963:

@Coin
Because mutants, I guess. There's a plausible and near-inexhaustible cast of blank spots for mutants in the Marvel universe.

DC has metahumans, which are essentially "mutants". Random people with random powers. They just don't necessarily come from a genetic mutation (or even the same one, when they do).

I guess you could consider DC's metahumans the ﭏₒ to Marvel's ѡ; i.e. they're both infinite, one's just more infinite than the other? Which, for the purposes of this discussion, is... kind of stupid for me to have spent that much time searching for those two symbols on charmap. Srsly.