Posts made by Coin

@Auspice said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

My biggest thing, re: statted systems vs. consent games (because consent games are not systems, so the term does not apply) is where the power lies.

On the latter, the power lies in the hands of Staff and whoever has the loudest voice. Your meek players and those who are not comfortable approaching authority are at a loss. How many people have just quietly left games because they don't feel comfortable approaching Staff?

I mean, shit, I am the person other people come to on games because I'm that person who will just bullshit with Staff on channels and even I have just left games rather than deal with some shit because I've encountered Staff I can't find that level of rapport with. I know people who can never, ever find that level of comfort. Faraday, for example, is one of the most approachable Staffers you will ever meet and I have had to shove people at her and tell them it is totally okay to talk to her and that is on mundane, happy issues and not 'hey this person is being a problem.'

In statted systems, you put power in the hands of your players. You give even your meek, anxious, introverted players something they can hold onto. You give people a voice. You give them something concrete they can hold onto, they can point to, they can back themselves up with. You give your Staff a base to work off of in arguments rather than he-said-she-said and hoping a smart third party or a decent log is available.

I love consent for storytelling and I still engage in a lot of it, even in statted systems, but even then only for people I trust.

I disagree, but only because it can be switched.

In a full consent game, an honest staffer can't just, say, kill your character for no reason, or because they feel like it. You have the power to no-consent anything. Even if Mortiz tries to drop his Red Kryptonite plot and have Superman rape you because he's just soooooo craaaazy, you can say 'nope, not happening'.

In a stat system, if a staffer doesn't like the argument you're making and how you're using the system to back it up, they can (and will, in many cases) just House Rule that shit to the point where you're wrong, because that's not how it works here.

Again, context is irrelevant when we're talking about shitty people vs. decent people.

@Ghost said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

@Coin Agreed.

On more than one occasion, I've seen less ethical players on SuperConsent MUs claim a very powerful character and use said level of power as a walking justification for powerpose and/or ignoring the powers/skills of other PCs.

It basically ends up like a hostage situation. PowerPlayer feels powers justify success despite consent. Staff intervention may end up necessary to stop PowerPlayer, but then it could be construed as staff railroading.

This latter is a fallacy, though, since one of staff's roles is to stop abuse. Also, it's not railroading if you take the bit away, it's just taking the bit away.

<.< >.>

@Ghost said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

I will note that I am a supporter of dice-assisted resolution and have found that super hero MUs with the diceless, cooperative systems work really well so long as everyone involved is role-playing in a relaxed, reasonable state. However, not all players operate the same, and have seen people abuse the diceless system.

TL;DR: diceless works so long as everyone is cooperative and copacetic, but unethical players will use said lack of dice to their powerpose advantage.

Diceless, but more specifically consent, since there are diceless systems with rules for resolution (such as Nobilis and Amber) gives an equal amount of consent power to every person present, which in turn gives more power to the more forceful OOC personality, which again, is a problem of people, not context.

Those same forceful personalities are the ones that end up staffing on statted games and getting their view of the rules (beneficial to them) established as the ones to follow.

@Auspice said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

I will note, however, the time I got treated the worst by a Staffer was the time I did say 'woah, too far' on a consent original-theme superhero game. >.> Like cussed-out 'omg how dare you not appreciate me' level.

But I used to be all about consent. Like once upon a time, I was like, a good 75% consent / 25% dice/stats person. Gimme story, gimme people who would work out story and telling it together.

...and then the assholes and their inability to ever see their character fail even once. Then superhero games and shit like 'Well, I don't care about your evidence from the comics. In my opinion, <Soandso> is and always will be the most powerful type of <character>, so you have to lose.'

And yeah, you get this on statted games, too, but at least there you have the system backing up your player STs. On non-statted games, player STs crumble even faster. I know even starry-eyed me was unwilling to ever venture outside of her circle of friends.

It happens, yeah.

But then on statted games you get OTHER dramas that you don't otherwise.

I also think, based again on personal experience that I could make into an experiment but won't, that the kind of person who would do what they did to you is the kind of person who, on a game with stats, would rules-lawyer the fuck out of everything just to get their way, for instance, or otherwise be a shitty person.

It's not really the context that's to blame, it's that person (those people) being shitty.

For all its faults, UU (where I got a big dose of my superhero gaming done) was good about consent and also about losing/winning in a balanced way.

We had the one Joker who always wanted to get away even when doing the stupidest shit, and we put a stop to THAT right quick.

@BobGoblin said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

Of course. I'm stuck in development meetings for work and bored out of my mind. If I hate my life why not spread it?

HOWEVER, to clarify for the meg

I believe the reason I see this more prominent in consent games is because of the type of player that open systems appeals to. Again from experience, when there is no real risk of negative consequences other than self imposed ones it encourages a different mentality than one that has checks.

To further as I stated I'd like to see a heroes game that used some kind of system for checks rather than solely consent largely in part to see if it would alleviate this problem. So yes. It is a player issue but I believe it's a player issue because the system appeals to that sort of player.

In fact I'd be curious to see how much of our player base overlaps between pure consent and checked consent games.

In discussions with my circle of associates (I don't have friends clearly) about the topic of heroes mu the consensus with them is that the lack of structure system is a problem. This is both from people who play open consent heroes games and those who refuse to. So I'm not pulling this topic from my ass but rather bringing up something that I've had discussions with no less than 8 people over.

Tldr someone should try a system for heroes games that involved some kind of check consent rather than purely open consent

IMO, it's only a problem because it doesn't fit their view of what a good and entertaining game should be, which is probably not a universal constant.

I've played in all sorts of game, both with stats and those that are pure consent, and while there are certain people that only play one or the other, my experience [anecdotal, but extensive enough that I could probably apply some experimental methods and processes if I were so inclined (which hahahaha fuck off, I'm not)] is that those people willing to cross these system-based genres are perfectly willing to realign to the new paradigm and play within those rules.

You're always going to have drama and I have found that while it's true that consent games tend to have a much lower rate of 'haha, I KILLED YOU' drama, both from assholes PKing people and from people wanting to avoid a legitimate PK (however you measure that within context) because consent means the subject is moot, I have also found that consent games tend to provide sometimes much more satisfactory story and generate much more trust between a storyteller and a player. I have, in no particular order, been allowed to kill, maim, imprison, torture, clone, replace, brainwash, and a host of other things, other player characters (as an ST) in consent games because they trusted me to tell a good story and because they knew if it got too far, when they said 'this is too far' I would find a way to accomodate that limit. Statted games don't have this, and it's as much of a problem as your alleged problem stemming from a 'lack of structure'.

Yes, consent can be abused, but let's not pretend that it's some flaw that can't be overcome, or that adding stats and taking that consent away fixes a problem without opening up a huge fucking door for a host of other problems.

It's all about what makes you comfortable playing and the people that you surround yourself with.

@BobGoblin said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

@Meg

Oh shit. Are we about to get into an internet board logic contest? I love these things because I get to spend the rest of my day feeling like I wasted a shit ton of time. We really going to do this? You going to take he bait?

Seems to me like you're the one chomping at the hook.

@skew said in Resume Advertisements Board:

I think it's a great idea. I mean, could use Shout in the Dark? But something more specific for this purpose might be nice.

Having gone through the "Hey new game who wants to help!" a few times, it definitely can be rough.

edit:

@BobGoblin I don't have 10 people I like.

That's because you like me and I negate like at least 30 people on account of my being an asshole.

@tragedyjones said in Vampire the Requiem 2.0 Bloodline Resources:

I only worked on the good ones, though.

I really liked our Bruja. Even though some of the Devotions are broderline cosmestic or utilitarian, I really like the thematics weight they bring.

@Apos said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

@BobGoblin said in POLL: Super Hero MU Gut Check:

In the mid-2000s there was a very (40+ player) successful X-men game based on the cartoons of X-men Evolution. It was limited to just the Brotherhood and Xavier's (although I think unaffiliated were in there as well.)

The more focused the game, the more impacting things can be on the micro level. Too many games are these giant monstrosities where what happens doesn't really matter. I'm assuming this is springing from the United thread. But even marvel 1963 which I've dabbled on is the same. More focused on # of players online then impact of story.

We have enough games where the big picture doesn't change, would love to see something with a new focus.

While this might sound weird or hypocritical from me since I run one of the larger games, I strongly agree. I enjoy storytelling smaller, very impactful events for characters, but due to the scope I really don't get to do that very often, and instead I need to focus on the very wide ranging changes that have the largest impact on the overall game world and prioritize things that change the narrative for the most characters.

To be honest, I think it's very difficult to run a FC focused game in a comic universe that doesn't have a lot of stasis pushback against any attempt to have dynamic changes. I love comic settings, but the draw of those games when they have FCs is the desire to play (and play with) recognizable characters, and it is -not- the world, meaning that derivation from that is intrinsically offputting to anyone but the people directly involved in the stories. Pretty much any significant change to any character runs the strong risk of being alienating to anyone that would find the game appealing, and without significant changes you have stasis. So you could do like World of Reboots, where you run a series of alternate universes, let whatever happens to FC happen for a year, then reboot over and over again, so someone coming into the game fresh isn't wondering why Batman's been dead for 3 years, Superman is now a regular guy, Lex Luthor reformed, etc.

I personally find established intellectual properties a giant headache to work with as settings or characters and would rather not because of that stasis effect.

One of my other comic book MU ideas was an Exiles-based game (still mixing DC and Marvel and maybe others) where basically, versions of characters got dragged in, but never really the "original" versions.

And I especially like the idea of Amalgam-style mixes. Like Dark Claw (just to name the most famous one).

I'd probably do something like, 'max 3 versions of a superhero at a time' and that version is basically 'yours'. You created it. Try not to copy anyone else. You also basically get run of your 'universe'. So if you're Matt Murdock, the Batman of Earth-02AH45(WHO WAS ADOPTED BY THE WAYNES AFTER HIS FATHER WAS KILLED IN A BOXING MATCH IN GOTHAM AND WAS BRUCE'S ADOPTED BROTHER WHEN THE WAYNES DIED SO DOUBLE THE TRAUMA FOR BLIND MATT) (and the first character from that universe), you also basically get veto on things that happen there (as long as they aren't multiverse-spanning effects that affect the entire game. Plus, that character is yours, so you can take a vacation or hiatus, come back, whatever. No fear of leaving for a bit and then having the character be played by someone else.

Course, if you're playing Elektra and you and Matt are a thing and you leave for a while, when you comes back, you may find that Matt is getting it on with another Elektra.

Or with Bullseye. Because he's a good guy in his universe. And also both are gay now. WHUT.

And then the game is basically running around different alternate realities fixing shit, because the Panopticon is like 'ERRYTHAN BROAAAAK'.

You might also not even be always at the Panopticon--maybe you're just "on-call".

I mean it might not be everyone's cupa, but it's mine.

You know. Just, let people run wild.

I also really like Matt Murdock as Batman with Bruce Wayne as something else idea. Sue me.

@Auspice said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

@Coin said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

@Bobotron said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

@Coin

... I need more sleep, I read that s 'Coin is a Unicron'. WUT?

I am that, too. I am many things.

If Coin is an anything-corn, can he be a Dildocorn?

...cause that suits the threesome plans nicely.

Sup, bb.

I don't have a preference, but I do have interest in superhero games. Your poll is flawed!

But.

I did have this idea a while back (I even posted about it here at some point) where it's basically the MU version of the TV show Young Justice ... (sort of).

Basically, you pick a universe (let's say DC; because it's easy). You start Year One. Superman. Batman. Wonder Woman. Green Arrow. Black Canary, The Flash. You know, your basic initial roster. They can have been superheroes for anywhere between a month to two years. Keep it small.

Play for a determined amount of time. Probably six months is good.

Skip ahead five years. Open up the roster for sidekicks/younger heroes. Now you've got Robin, Superboy, Wonder Girl, Speedy, Kid Flash, blah blah blah.

Play for a determined amount of time. Probably six months is good.

Skip ahead five years. Open up the ros--etc, etc.

And the skips can also serve for people to mix-and-match cool backstories they can play with each other, flashback to, whatever. They can even say 'man, in those intervening five years, my character was brainwashed, or went rogue, or betrayed them, or whatever'.

There's a lot you can do, and the skipping can shift the status quo hard and renew interest.

@Bobotron said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

@Coin

... I need more sleep, I read that s 'Coin is a Unicron'. WUT?

I am that, too. I am many things.

@Scorn said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

@Coin is a unicorn?!

lulz

@Roz said in Things We Should Have Learned Sooner:

For many years of my young life, I thought "albeit" was pronounced "all-bay" as if it were French. Who the fuck knows why.

In some places, it's actually pronounced 'al-bait'. [shrugs]

Dragonball Z Abridged is fucking brilliant, especially once you get past the first 6-7 episodes and they start to drop the dumber stuf and become truly fucking epicly hilarious.

I can't really play League of Legends on the NA server, unfortunately (which probably goes for most MOBAs, actually) because the lag fucking destroys me. Like, at 250 ping, I am less than effective when it comes to pretty much anything. Like I can maybe reliably play off-lane, but even then, I'm probably just gonna get trounced.

It's annoying because a lot of people who are friends of mine online play in NA.

I just wanted to complain. Booo.

@ShelBeast said in Vampire the Requiem 2.0 Bloodline Resources:

The best place would be to look on the Onyx Path forums and website. So far, they've only "officially" released two bloodlines. Everything else has been fan made conversions, mostly found on their forums.

Khaibit, Kerberoi, and that one Revenant bloodline I can't remember.

@ZombieGenesis, the problem is that every single one of these three bloodlines uses a different system to create them. It's a mess.

I have a BUNCH of converted bloodlines that we used with @tragedyjones for Reno 1.0

I believe on Steam I am "Seiraryu". Also the name I go by on League of Legends.

@Faceless said in Aria's Playlist:

After noting yourself and @Coin chit-chatting in this threat. Fun fact, I actually tried to get @Coin to come play Thesarin at one point. He refused because he's "not playing anywhere at the moment".

I'm glad that Mia finally has an active player though. I bet you'll do great things with her!

Well, I'm not. And the few places I've tried I've sort of petered out regardless. I dunno! Also i did try Arx twice and it just ain't really my thing.

@PuppyBreath said in General Video Game Thread:

@Coin said in General Video Game Thread:

If I didn't have huge ping in the NA server, I'd be way more patient with you than most people. Mostly because 1) I am naturally just bad at MOBAs and 2) I don't take them seriously.

I love trolling people who get super pissed off when I make mistakes and stuff.

I think my favorite was when I started trolling this jungler that kept crapping on me. I basically just build movement speed so he couldn't outrun me and I kept stealing his jungle kills, or, like, there's this plant that if you hit it it sends you flying in a direction and I would just activate it at the worst possible moment for him.

Like, I get it, I was being a total dick, but this guy, man--THIS GUY.

So yeah.

WHY AREN'T YOU PLAYING OVERWATCH WITH ME

Because I don't have it, my computer would probably strain running it, and I don't have the money to buy it. XD