Best posts made by Ghost

@Chime said in What do you WANT to play most?:

We don't need more song of ice&fire clones.

When I say dark fantasy, I'm saying as grimdark as Bill Nighy and Nick Cave drinking motor oil atop a pile of bones while listening to the audiobook version of Sylvia Plath's The Bell Jar
I'm thinking more akin to the middle ages scenes from Underworld, where there is the darkest, blackest, foulest magic out there in the night. Where piles of stripped bones line the entrance to the unsurvivable forest. Where the Midnight Queen awakens for the first time in a thousand years and marches with her army of the undead, adding to her ranks with every mortal they kill.

Or some shit like that. I dunno.

Public Service Announcement: I would rather stab myself in the eyes than play another Lords and Ladies game where I'm all: "Hi! I'm Lord McImportant Pants! Hang out with me while I polish the McImportant armor with McImportant polish to show my McImportant Squire the importance of being an important McImportant! Cheer for me at tourney #23. I'm banging my sister but we don't log it so shhhhhhhh." That shit is boring as hell and for the most part, it's all predetermined outcomes by characters apped in to be important people whom you can't Red Wedding without their permission.

@Lithium I think you're missing the point that no one was saying for sure it was OPP, but there were adjacent behaviors. It was kept purposefully vague and without names just in case you weren't OPP.

So that anonymity just done flew right out the window.

It's kind of like how for hundreds of years, artists perfected the task of using chalk, pencil, and paint to capture all that humanity has to offer. To make art. To inspire. To breathe life onto canvas...

...And then by 2000 A.D. people started drawing penises on everything.

Some people use MSB to make​ art.
Others use it to draw dick-tanks and T-Rex dinosaurs having sex with He-Man.

@hobos Right. I think it's important to recognize that @Runescryer simply posted that the person (OPP) was potentially on an unnamed game, and would be looking into it. There is ZERO chance of damage to innocent people with that kind of announcement. It wasn't until Lithium showed up and outed themselves that really any of this couldn't have been recovered from.

It's also important to understand that there is no checklist of behaviors or RP themes that are specific to CreeperA vs CreeperB. There's a lot of overlap in terms of pushiness/harassment/issues that aren't truly singular to one particular usual suspect. So the best you can do is say either "person with this behaviors" or "I don't know it might be OPP?" and just keep an eye out.

On a lighter note, I'm rewatching the Office (US) for like the 6th time and am ironically on the episode where Michael, for "women's appreciation" takes all of the women into Victoria's Secret and offers to buy them all 1 item each, his treat. While he's in there, Angela won't buy anything, and Michael's all "You sure you dont want anything? A g-string? A thong? Perhaps something lacy? A nice bra? Padded bra? See through? You know i would just like to buy you a fresh set of underwear..."

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

I think games like Firan, and Serenity, and Game of Kings and the like deserved to have what was deeply, grossly wrong with those games brought into the public square.

I agree. In those cases there were ethical concerns where the community turned into a support group. People found out that they weren't the only ones. Hell, even I have more than a few Serenity stories.

However, I also feel strongly that getting involved in that drama, or other people's drama, is fun for some people. It's titillating. When there is no current Firan or Serenity to rally around, the desire for that titillation doesn't go away. The answer, per the Hog Pit (which was also the Hog Pit on the more widely believed to be more negative WORA, which makes me wonder if, by association, the Hog Pit on MSB is doomed to be no better), is to turn on each other. There's a sense of always being on the lookout for Serenity2, Firan2, Mal2, Inara2, VASpider2. From what I've seen, the hate/flame delivery requirements shift to allow for that titillation, and people guilty of far lesser shit than Firan, Spider, etc get the Spider treatment because, hey, titillation.

Titillation.

A lot of people enjoy being socially allowed to throw rocks and not be seen as ugly for doing so, even if it's just jumping in on someone else's rock throwing ceremony. The Schadenfreude is in play.

@Misadventure I'm conflicted on this. MSB should be a good place to find refuge/defense from fucked up players. There are truly unethical, fucked up people in the hobby. The problem is that since some people on these boards have used it as a weapon against innocent people over various stages of butthurt, it's so hard for me to get a read on whether or not I'm reading an honest whistleblowing or a situation where someone has struck first on some kind of one-sided public flaming to gain closure through wrath.

For the most part, unless I see a log, I'm hesitant, and even then, I'm not all that interested in throwing rocks for titillation's sake.

Titillation.

@hobos

"Not that I doubt for a second we would be able to find many ways in which to amuse ourselves, locked in a townhouse together, just the two of us."

Sometimes I'm witness to RP or read through logs, and I gotta be honest sometimes it just reads like some kind of process to determine if TS is on the table. Sure, its under the guise of roleplay, but feels like some sort of token, necessary evil the other player has to suffer because simply paging and asking for TS is considered unattractive. It's not just men who do this, too. I've been the target of scenes where a player felt like they were doing the following:

• HI, I'm so and so character that's sexy
• So we gonna TS? Sure, your character is interesting and you're trying to RP stuff but I wanna fuck your PC
• Seriously we should TS. Why aren't you hitting on my char?
• You did a bunch of RP chatty things, but seriously, I mean are you looking to TS?
• Your character isn't interested? ZOMGS electrical storm coming, I gotta pose out. KThxByeeee. Going to ignore you from now on!

All snark aside, I've had moments in RP where I'm getting pages asking what my RL kinks and fetishes are roughly 30 seconds into RP, and any attempt to roleplay something other than hardcore flirtation seemed to be a nuisance to whatever text-based mating call process the other player was up to. Which...really felt oddly negative in a personal way when the person entirely blew off the RP because I didn't put out.

Which, given what I feel is an uncomfortable reality about what TS actually is for some players, I'm not surprised to see people getting ditched because they won't put out.

@surreality said in Strange Game Dev Inquiries from surreality (condensed):

Yes, including NSFW content, if for some reason people want to post that. There are NSFW censor things people can use for this similar to the wiki spoiler template I posted a ways back in one of the help forums

Dude, I would totally read NSFW logs in the least creepy of ways.

I mean, work gets boring and on breaks it's nice to have logs to read, but reading some NSFW logs from other players might turn into some kind of Luke and Laura minor fan factor where the next time I see a certain two players post a NSFW log, I might be like: OMG GOTTA READ, HOLY SHIT, I HOPE THEY GOT OVER THAT WEREWOLF CHEATING EPISODE AND MADE UP!

I feel like I'm sometimes missing an entire 'high five' level of this hobby, because I'll comment on PubChan about how great X or Y log was. I totally wanna cheer on other people's RP, whatever it is. Heck, sometimes reading other people's love helps me find people I wanna RP with and I get a little bit giddy when I finally get a chance to:

Werewolf dude Steve is a fucking BADASS. I've read like...7 logs, and now my character just met Steve and they're accidental allies in the same bar right, how COOL IS THIS?!?

@Cobalt said in Ruiz:

@reimesu said in Ruiz:

@Bessarion said in Ruiz:

And I'm done giving your dysfunctional ass attention. Just stop.

(Bold is mine) That's a personal attack. Please stop.

Lol.

But spinning a story about how I banned Macha because I wanted Isaac for myself wasn’t? Y’all some on some hypocritical stuff here.

I don't think this is the case, but I find it rather curious that you won't disclose whether or not you had a personal stake in the situation.

It's a simple yes or no question, and if the answer were 'no' the whole thing would be null and void. Anyone who would have suspected otherwise would be wrong and look stupid.

Personally, I'm sensing you have more skin in the game than you're admitting and won't answer because not doing so controls whether or not any of this is considered to be retaliatory.

I could be wrong, but that would require a 'no'. It doesn't really matter asking anymore at this point; I don't expect an answer. To be fair, I never really did.

@Ganymede said in Course Corrections:

But I try because I know that the pop-culture references aren't really found in the BSG world.

Yeah but BSG also had people singing the actual lyrics to Dylan/Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" ,which blows the whole fuckin' argument out of the water.

My point, really, was this. I don't wish the LegoPlayer any ill will, nor did I from the get go. I agree that the big problem was being reported to staff as being a harassment case when I was just trying to get a feel on her level of understanding the canon material and offer my services as a support source.

For whatever reason (Bad past experiences? Bitchy person? I don't know or care), she took it as hostility and chose to react to it with hostility.

MORAL OF THE STORY:

1. If you're playing on a game with a certain kind of canon setting (Battlestar, 100, Firefly, etc) and you don't know the setting very well, be reasonable with people who try to help you learn the setting. 9/10 times they're just sharing Intel on a setting they love.

2. If you're playing on a game with a specific canonical setting, and you see someone who doesn't seem to know it, approach them politely, try to share your knowledge, but don't automatically assume that they don't give a fuck. Your delivery when attempting to course correct matters every bit as much as how they choose to respond to it.

People care about setting. They can't cry with a faker present, so if you don't know the setting, take the time to learn what you can about it. It's conscientious to the other players on the game.

Can I just say that I think it's great that despite a split in the community, the number of people monitoring or reserving the right to come back to post proves THAT MSB IS ALIVE AND KICKIN BABY WOOOO

...and to think someone I don't remember or give a shit about earlier was like (sour voice) msb has only 5 active users waaah

On a personal note, it means a lot to me because I am literally an undead phantasm that would cease to exist if no one remembered (or cared for) who I was, so a huge THANK YOU to both forums for all of the attention. It is literally sustaining my life-force and allowing me to haunt my ex-wife and her new Chad husband while I watch little Kevin grow into an impressive point guard at his YMCA kids league. Without all of this I would be sucked into the bright, glowing vortex of ecclesiastical light I've been avoiding since I became a ghost.

@Arkandel said in Emotional separation from fictional content:

Where is the correct balance point between the players' responsibility to maintain the separation between the fictional content and their real life trigger points, and the game/plot runners' responsibility to flag such material?

What is the correct response by the latter to the former after such a triggered response? Even assuming the best of intentions such things are bound to happen, so how should staff handle an upset player?

How do we achieve both (1) and (2) without discouraging people from running things which aren't either inoffensive or completely black and white? Or is it better in certain games that controversial themes are never ran, and staff plots/public PrPs are always 'safe'? If so, when?

1. I think the term reasonable applies. With so many content policies, the only real responsibility a game/scene runner has is to keep scenes within acceptable use. Easily, 90% of the responsibility of a player to maintain separation. These games are not lives and these characters are not themselves. People should not be subject to someone else's inability to cope with creative playspace. But, reasonably, the game runner/gm needs to stay within the (key word here) agreed upon lines. If a player cannot maintain their level of separation, they should not play these games. Period.

2. The triggered needs to behave reasonably. Its not everyone's responsibility to cater to every trigger that exists. People need to understand that a virtual minefield of triggers will not sustain, and if there were any content allowance concerns because of some all important trigger, then the triggered should review with staff as part of their decision making process before applying. Once in, understand that in very few situations is an action designed to trigger you, and if it is within bounds of policy, the gm/runner may not be doing anything wrong at all. So the triggered has a responsibility to behave. They may excuse themselves from the scene, discuss with staff if certain content is within acceptable use, but very rarely is a personal-attack response warranted. On the same hand, a reasonable GM should include details of potential content or themes as a favor to players. Many games allow for rating, but never, ever should being triggered result in an attack. We are all adults. We need to maintain order and ensure said triggering isn't being used as an offensive weapon against staff or other players.

3. We must all strive to encourage in others the ethic to separate IC from OOC. We can post content warnings on events, which is no different from an MPAA or ESRB rating for other content. We can watch for predatory players, both triggered or people pushing fucked up rp on others, and we can remember the term reasonable when making staffing decisions when it comes to players who have lost their objectivity or use a minefield of triggers as a means to control others. In the end, we can be reasonable, set reasonable content warnings and policies, respond to things we don't like in a reasonable manner, and handle any issues with an eyeball on what should be reasonably expected from any given player.

@hobos and that's a fair stance. People like Macha deserve to have a place where they can defend themselves without constant ridicule. Really, everyone in the community does.

Being above board, I don't personally agree with everyone else's assessment on the Cobalt situation (I literally just wanted to rule out retaliation before coming to a judgment, myself), but allow me to offer you a different perspective:

There is so much pent-up toxicity across the entire community that (since the days of WORA-on-forward) I think it's pretty obvious that there are two kinds of places: places where the toxicity is encouraged and places where the toxicity is attempted to be kept in check. MSB isn't perfect by any means and people can make what they want of it. It's a communal effort. We could chat about football, the newest season of Mandalorian, and have meditation circles.

Attempted being the key word.

I think that whenever anyone posts anything here trying to defend themselves or be constructive and the angry BMD crowd comes over to ridicule (or keep it going) you're going to see some of that old stuff ignite. For some of these people it's muscle memory, and it's hard to let go of (apparently).

My advice is to keep being faithful to your beliefs and don't be afraid to call out when you think this place isn't acting like it wanted to be. We're all humans here and it may help to have a cricket on the shoulder chime in when old reflexes are kicking.

In short: I think your respectful opinions and perspectives are fair and welcome

@surreality So, on a reasonable level, how would it be my responsibility to mitigate (on behalf of another player), potentially triggering themes related to sex, violence, crime, and dark imagery, when said person with triggers has chosen to find entertainment on an online role-playing space with complete strangers, where the central theme (WoD, example) is horror, crime, violence, sex, and fear?

So if a player with PTSD chooses to enter the funhouse with the sign that reads DANGER: THE THEME OF THIS FUNHOUSE INCLUDES THEMES OR VIOLENCE, SEX, HORROR, FEAR, DEATH, EVISCERATION, RELATIONSHIP DRAMA, LOSS, AND YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER WHO COMES AND GOES, how are the other people in the Funhouse in any way responsible for their choice to enter a potentially triggering environment?

Tennis doesn't have these themes.

Maybe the people with massive relationship triggers, fear triggers, abuse triggers, winning/losing triggers shouldn't be relying on online games with complete strangers, games with triggering themes no less, for fun in search of horror or relationship rp.

It is the responsibility of each player to determine their ability to remain objective on these playspaces, and it is their responsibility to determine, given whatever diseases, issues, or triggers they may have, if the funhouse is a proper environment for them.

It's not my fault if I trip a trigger on accident, and while I sympathize with people's personal bullshit (because we all have some), it's not their responsibility to cater to mine, either.

@Derp Yeah there's that.

I've been told that detailing the DSM definition of mental illnesses and poring through them to determine if an unpopular person is lying is a thing, now.Which, doing so is potentially fuckoff levels of damaging on a RL scale while also being the exact antithesis of providing a safe space for people with mental and emotional difficulties.

So obviously the DSM5/6 definitions of everything from ADHD to Sociopathy would be useful to cut and paste into a forum chat.

Snark aside, I will say that the people who did that should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, as well as the people who chose not to call it out.

I found a constructive point to ring in once more.

What about the non-extreme triggers?

We've waxed philosophical for a bit on the extremes, themes such as rape, incest, etc. I don't think we're at the point of a dead horse on the topic yet (because finding new ways to better communicate harsh themes without coming across as some kind of edgy-kink-drama monster to unsuspecting players never, ever hurts).

The non-extreme triggers so to speak, are more common, harder to identify, and harder to control. The original topic being about emotional separation from fictitious content, I feel this applies.

• Self Worth
• Romanctic Fulfillment
• Abandonment
• Rejection
• Isolation
• Feelings of not being wanted

I could write a list a mile long, but I think we tend to come across emotional separation issues surrounding the more mundane concepts listed above than we do themes of rape, incest, mutilation, extreme misogyny, stalking, etc.

As someone who's tripped a few wires before in the past, I'll openly state that when it comes to the people who have trouble separating themselves on an OOC level from the IC equation, the majority of trouble and drama I've come across in the hobby has been due to these mundane attachment issues and not the extremes.

(Spoiler: This is PROBABLY because I've never ever ever ever been involved in rape or incest roleplay? Might be a reason why.)

HOWEVER, how often have we come across nasty interpersonal issues where the core hurt stems from OOC attachment to an IC situation, and the likelihood that the IC situation strummed one of these more mundane attachment concepts?

This hobby is impermanent. The games are impermanent. The character relationships are impermanent just as much as we are strangers and we cannot guarantee even our closest roleplaying partners that a particular bit of RP meta will last as long as we think it could/should. Life happens. Games shut down. People move on.

...but god-damn do some people place a lot of emotional attachment stock in certain characters, relationships, etc despite the fact that years have data have shown us that we don't really get to keep characters; we get to rent them.

These mundane concepts are so subjective, but when paired against a personality that has placed a certain bit of self worth, wish fulfillment, escape from reality, emotional attachment, etc into these concepts, we run into regular issues.

At some point we may want to move away from the extreme to discuss how to mitigate these mundane attachment problems.

@TNP said in Ruiz:

I have nothing further to say so shall truly depart and let you all fade into irrelevancy

Please do. I've been asking yall to do it for ages.

I think this is pretty necro'd and if you look back you can see some of my previous responses, but I still feel the same.

IC Romance/TS is often approached on an OOC level as "dating and cybersex", and I find the duality of it all to be very...interesting. Sure, some treat it just like "writing" but the desire for privacy, need to know OOC/RL details about the fellow writer, the number of personal explosions related to IC romance and/or "breakups", etc are all quite telling on a psychoanalysis level. It's very messy terrain and people can talk as big a game as they want that it's "just writing fiction" but I feel the actual truth is something southeast of that simple quote.

@testament said in Positivity Going Forward...:

@hella said in Positivity Going Forward...:

@ghost it's self selection and hopefully a necessary evil of the evolution of MSB that will dwindle with time.

Kind of like when you said you were leaving mushing/MSB, right? If you want to come back, fine. But there isn't really a need to hide it.

Eh, being constructive? I've never seen this forum to be entirely about "currently being in the hobby". There are/were plenty of highly vocal Hog Pitters who didn't play or quit ages ago who had opinions on the hobby and what goes on it in that weren't bullied for it. All of that "you said you quit why are you still here?" stuff is just a bullying tactic.

Reality is that if you spend 10 years or more (or any quantity that has meaning) in your life within a certain hobby and still have friends who are in the hobby, hanging around to hear the news and keep tabs is just fine. No one should be bullied for that.

@selira I 100% do not intend to look at myself critically, come to the expectations/revelations that you have, and then submit my adherences to those expectations for review to you and your friends....who would inevitably either decide that despite my efforts I'm still (as you put it) a slimy piece of shit or happily place me on some kind of regular probation where I'll suffer ridicule again if I don't continue to agree with their assessment on everything.

I find it silly that you would assume that failure to do so means I only care about my own opinion about myself. In truth, I only care about the opinions about me of the people who behave with respect and dignity whose constructive and respectful opinions have worth.

Sometimes, the right person thinking you're a slimy piece of shit actually means you're probably a good person, depending on the source.

Yeah and that # of players per scene, to me, was a time equation. I can't tell you how many nights I had FOUR HOURS to RP and it ended up being three, maybe four, poses; the first being a pose in and the last being my "gotta go to bed pose-out". When it takes an hour or more for the turn order to cycle back to you, it felt like a time sink more than anything, which drove whatever latent ADD I had up the freaking wall.

There's got to be a better way to compartmentalize scene elements so more players are relevant and get some good RP in, but ALSO allows for more than 8 people to RP.