Posts made by ixokai

@the-tree-of-woe said in X-Men Utopia MUX:

@ixokai It's not without its bugs. I'm mostly mulling ways you could get away from the traditional model of app-writing. It's ancient, and while it's still serviceable I can't help but feel like there's got to be a better way to handle it.

I don't know.

I think app writing is fine: what I'm hearing is I think some games are completely idiotic in what they expect out of an app.

One of my characters has, among his various abilities, TK. It is defined thusly:

Telekinesis: Without using a spell, he can lift and manipulate up to two tons of matter with a fine degree of control. This can be used for flight as well: in fact he has a hard time turning it off in that case. He tends to float without really thinking about it.

@the-tree-of-woe said in X-Men Utopia MUX:

I feel like having pertinent character details up on a wiki (along with links to more in-depth backgrounds) and a character sheet is a superior choice to a written app. The 'application' should be a player talking to staff about the character and what they want to do with them and then getting the nod. Staff working with an OC to work out their background and build their sheet is essentially the same as reviewing an app anyway.

I'm confused. How is that not a written app? Someone had to write what the powers and limits are on the wiki. I have a huge aversion to anything that feels like an "interview" or "audition", and I don't per se know at app time what I wanna do with a character. Sometimes that depends on dynamics of the team/people.

@prototart said in X-Men Utopia MUX:

I think there's a happy medium between "Can you fight Hulk? Didn't think so!" and "(detailed analysis of stepping discs as folds in space time created with zero point energy)"

Wait, someone on a traits game asked for how powers WORKED? Man, that way leads to madness. It works because comics.

That's you exaggerating for comedic effect... right?

Traits, imho, should make it understandable what is possible and what isn't, without having to go into a lot of detail.

@bobotron said in X-Men Utopia MUX:

@collective
I think FASERIP got mentioned and there was more push for MHRPG (the Cortex one), which has a similar modeling ability as well.

I'm curious how superheros get quantified into stats. They're so... wildcard, they can do anything. I've seen some systems (Champions?) that try to quantify any sort of power into a point thing and while those are cool, even it fell short on the one game I used it on.

I'm not suggesting it can't be done, but I'm not quite sure how to go about it.

On m1963, for example, my OC mutant is a gravity manipulator. His power, essentially, is to touch something and determine a) what is 'down', and b) how strong (or weak) 'down' is.

With this he can do some crazy things. Run on walls, throw cars at people, fly, lift things that are way heavier then he should be able to lift ('down' is 'up' at 10% of 1G, for example).

I can't quite imagine how to frame that on a game with stats.

@autumn I find your argument compelling, tbh. I'd vote yes on the app based on that reasoning.

@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:

I think the question I have is, knowing that women and homosexuals are going to be oppressed, are you putting any limits on gender swaps or non-heterosexuality? Because I'm not hearing "yes."

The oppression is almost if not entirely the realm of NPCs. The average black NPC is likely to hear the n-word from time to time from the average idiot white NPC. The PC isn't likely to. But the PC's background should reflect the world and how they managed to be the exception.

The average homosexual NPC might be in a club and have it raided and get taken to jail. Its not likely to happen to a PC unless the PC actually decided to pose it happening.

PC's are special. For one thing most of them have super-powers: if someone decided to gaybash Wiccan he'd turn them into a frog.

And no we aren't really putting limits on gender-swaps or sexualities except there's some things that just don't make sense. Someone would have to explain how a FemCap was in a super-soldier program when there were no female soldiers. I'm not saying its impossible but that would need to be worked out.

@tempest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

Staff's apparent focus on the 'anti-gay/anti-women' elements of the timeframe seems kind of....strange.

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

There's all kinds of -isms. Staff isn't focused on any particular one or two. Staff has never said the game is anti-women or are "focused" on that. The civil rights act was just enacted; there's a lot of racism, too.

Its just a realization that the PC's are exceptional when they overcome the biases of the time. Emma Frost is a CEO. But that's exceptional.

As for why the game is set when it is-- X-Men: First Class.

@lithium said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai Sexism and intolerance is a thing even today. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves or perhaps so privileged they don't see it.

I... know?

The thing for me is that RP and Games are meant to be an escape from reality, and it seems an odd point to try and enforce for gaming pleasure.

No one's enforcing sexism or racism. Just saying when apping: take into account the time. But PC's are PC's and special.

Or maybe it's just not directed towards me, and that is completely fine, but it strikes me as a bit odd where you claim that sexuality doesn't matter for even FC's on your game, but then you put forth that intolerance about sexuality and sex is a big thing on your game.

I never put forth that "intolerance about sexuality" is a "big thing".

It just happens in the background. Like-- the only "gay" clubs are mafia-run and still they get raided from time to time. Do we eye people in a gay club and go NPC a police action? No... do we poke people and say, hey, get gaybashed! No...

Its just the the texture of the background. Most RP doesn't involve -isms or -phobias because most PC's are supers, and once you're a mutant or an alien or someone who turns into a giant green rage machine,... stones and glass houses. That and most people are OOCly not wanting to play -ists.

@Lithium Its not that 'women are supposed to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen', that's a dramatic overstatement. But that women in certain professional fields would face challenges men wouldn't. Look at the Hidden Figures movie. The men are shocked! shocked! That women not only work at NASA but meaningfully contribute in more then secretarial roles. That's the background in which PC's find themselves: if someone wants to play a woman character in a role that doesn't traditionally have women, they're allowed to. The app should just be written such as to acknowledge this.

@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@tnp said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@tempest Keep in mind it's 1964. There's no tolerance for gays. In fact, the word's not really in use yet. Homosexuals are considered deviant by most of the government, the country, and the world.

And this baffles me as a game choice and is the reason I would never play this game, much as I love superhero comics and hero/villain rp in general.

I note he speaks of the NPC world. There's no policy of rawr-*phobia/*ism. Between PC's, especially powered PC's, its almost irrelevant. The only way it really impacts play is people who play gay/bi characters is they don't make out in public.

The PC's are like he vanguard of a changing world.

@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:

Remember when I said we wouldn't tolerate anyone being a jerk to someone for playing a FC wrong?
The thing is that's never happened

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I think it's far more likely you just haven't heard about it.

Game's not that big.

@lithium said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@kanye-qwest I kind of agree, the whole idea of 1963/1964 is that the world is supposed to be moving forwards at that time, and yet there is a clear policy of zero tolerance. Marvel was not that intolerant, it pushed it's intolerance onto a fictional type of being (mutants) in order to represent intolerance and the injustice of it. To actively promote an intolerant attitude and pick a timeline where Tolerance was a thing...

I'm not at all clear what you're saying here.

"Clear policy of zero tolerance"?

"pick a timeline where Tolerance was a thing"?

@the-tree-of-woe said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai - I just woke up so I'm not sure I'm phrasing this correctly, but I do agree with your defense of players playing an FC in the style and manner that suits them...

But what's your high water mark for when a player is behaving destructively or negatively affecting the RP of others? When would you feel it was appropriate to intervene or even yank a bit?

I'm not asking to try to grill you or anything, I'm genuinely curious.

I don't know. There's not some line where its like: here be dragons, hear me roar.

Note, this is not my game. I'm not headwiz-- but because I can mush from work, more often then not I'm the enforcer.

In the normal course of events, someone complains, or someone else mentions to one of staff something is up (this is not uncommon: some people are avidly prone not to not complain), or we witness a problem ourselves. We look into it and act as we agree appropriate.

Action either takes an immediate form or a warning.

Now as it turns out, of the five people we've banned, three have not taken the "normal course of events" path.

Generally these involve harassment or abuse that is going on now and a response to a "stop" instruction goes wacky.

One just kept going on about how she was right and that people have no right to..something. Slander them and make them look bad, something like that (man, I still have that log, it was kinda funny -- The original issue was minor: they made an off-color joke that was offensive and if they had just shut up all woulda been fine.)

One had been talked to by another staffer (and that staffer relayed the conversation to the staff room as it happened: this is routine for how we do things.) and started completely distorting the situation and lying about what was said to her, and wouldn't let it go.

Another time someone unrelated to what's going on paged me and said there's an issue in +ooc, I flip over and deal with it.

There's nothing special about any of this, there's no like, line in the sand where we've decided here and no further. I admit that makes it somewhat up to Staff discretion: we have our Don't Be A Douchebag policy. It gets enforced either immediately or through first a warning then a ban (though this procedure isn't written in stone: if someone did something really bad it could go right to ban).

Remember when I said we wouldn't tolerate anyone being a jerk to someone for playing a FC wrong?

The thing is that's never happened. Its entirely a theoretical position. With very rare exception our players are great. They're helpful and collaborative and don't need a lot of glaring at.

@ganymede said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:

For those who are gonna say, JUST MAKE ALL OCS THEN, shh. No. People wanna play make-believe with Captain America and Batman. Let'em.

Can you update the M1963 advertisement a little for me? I'm seriously interested in what you're throwing down, and I'd like to try and add something to the game if I can when I app onto it. I've had an OC brewing for a long time, and I'd like to try her.

Sure, its late and I'm into the bourbon, so I'll have to do it tomorrow. But what? Is it our policy and treatment of OCs vs MC's and our non-canon status that you're looking for a statement on the ad about? Or 'current state of the game'?

Considering how many times various comic characters have changed writers, directions, even origin stories from time to time, I think the entire idea of a "canon game" is ludicrous and anyone who tries it is asking for trouble.

Easy: Nothing is canon, so no one has to worry about what is or isn't canon. The character's +bg and +sheets are what happened!

For those who are gonna say, JUST MAKE ALL OCS THEN, shh. No. People wanna play make-believe with Captain America and Batman. Let'em.

@arkandel said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@tnp but is @ixokai going to take steps to protect players if the /playerbase/ cares that they app a bi or gay FC?

Yes.

It won't happen, but if it did: players do not, flatly, have a right to care about how someone elses character is being played. If a player doesn't like that, they can play elsewhere.

And what about the inverse?

What happens if someone apps Batwoman then plays her as straight?

What's the difference?

Are you asking if I'm only protective of minorities? The answer is no. Its not just black and gay people who get our protection from people trying to tell them they're playing something wrong.

@kanye-qwest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@tnp but is @ixokai going to take steps to protect players if the /playerbase/ cares that they app a bi or gay FC?

Yes.

It won't happen, but if it did: players do not, flatly, have a right to care about how someone elses character is being played. If a player doesn't like that, they can play elsewhere.

EDIT:

Let me rephrase. People have a right to care about anything they want to care about. Quietly, privately and in their own skull. They absolutely do not have a right to bug other players about if they're playing a character "right" or not. That won't be tolerated-- for any situation, be it a character's race, gender, sexuality, particular universe they come from, background, attitude, relationships with other characters... any of it.

It's never happened before but it'd be considered a conduct violation: it'd be dealt with, without hesitation.

We'd aren't the biggest game around but we are not concerned with numbers. If someone's a douchebag, we're fine with having one less player.

@collective said in FCs on Comic MUs:

On the other hand, I feel like if I app, say, Nightwing or Red Hood as being into dudes, I'm going to have to wade through a mountain of assumptions about what I'm actually doing on the game. And if I don't include that in the app and I do end up in romantic RP, then I feel like I've lied by omission to the staff, who might not be cool with Dick being into dicks.

... oh my god, I can not tell you how much I don't care.

I mean the utter depth of the not caring is incomprehensibly vast and deep.

Seriously like, ... wow.

@bobotron said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@tnp
Eh. I don't see the point in gender swapping, personally. My experience with it on games that allowed it was TO HAVE MORE SEXXORZ, which obviously colors my thoughts on it. Legacy characters are a different matter, or proteges/people taking on that identity for their own reasons and such is all well and good and within the purview of comics.

Of the three times its happened that I can think of, I can absolutely guarantee it was not TO HAVE MORE SEXXORZ with complete certainty.

@tnp said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@the-tree-of-woe said in FCs on Comic MUs:
That's pretty much what we mean when we say 'the character needs to be recognizable'. Though with one difference: we don't care about gender. In most cases, it's not integral to the character and can easily be changed.

Re: gender-swapping, of interest it has only ever to my remembrance been used to flip M2F.

I think this might have something to do with the number of cool guys vs cool ladies in comics. But I'm not a subject matter expert on that.

@lotherio said in FCs on Comic MUs:

For me, there are so many takes on an FC that most end up being OC that looks like and has power set of the FC. Why not just make an OC game and do that?

Because people want to play Captain America. Its a sort of adult make believe, running around playing our favorite heros.

Personally I would just like more original theme Mu*s.

This I can agree with fo' sho'.

@the-tree-of-woe said in FCs on Comic MUs:

@ixokai I confess I have never chargenned at a Superhero game that didn't have features.

Nothing wrong with that, your response just surprised me.

This is my first comic game as I've said, so for me "engaging with OCs" is like, "I RP with them like I RP with anyone on any other game I've ever played." I meet folk and get to know them and fight beside and see how we click.

Then again I emphatically do not try to mimic FC relationships/dynamics when I play a FC. I always try to take my own... interpretation, inspired by the FC, yes, with a similar feel.

I mean I'm playing Johnny Storm on M1963. I have a base assumption that he and Ben will have a tense relationship, that he'll trust his sister, and that he'll trust but roll his eyes at Reed. But that's just a base assumption. If it doesn't go that way, no big.

I've never read a F4 comic in my life, will never do so, and am not especially impressed with any F4 movies. (Especially that last one: shudder). However, reading over Johnny's story, I was inspired to have a certain take on him, and I enjoy it and I go with it.

@the-tree-of-woe said in FCs on Comic MUs:

I have a hard time engaging with OCs sometimes, because I tend to lean on established dynamics between characters to guide me going forward. But I'd never try and restrict people from playing them.

Do you only play games with FCs?

@mietze said in FCs on Comic MUs:

Reading up on all the comic MU stuff makes me glad I never tried them, honestly it is pretty stunning to me that OCs are so disdained! Since I often like the worlds/themes of a genre or place more than I enjoy endless chaining to source material detail (and yes, I understand from reading wikipedia that comic book FCs probably have ten million ways you can go with any given character since they like to rewrite/mix up/alt universe it up) that I would not wish to offend someone by playing a beloved character "wrong" because I didn't know as much about them as a true fangirl should.

I'm not a huge comics fan (though I love reading about them as well as listening to friends talk about them). But I have gone to a few events for comics fans as the driver/interested companion/for interesting peoplewatching/because I really enjoy people, and I have seen people almost literally froth at the mouth over canon and deviations and stuff.

It seems like if you're not a totally ovaries to the wall fan person, but wanted to try out a new mush experience you never had before, that you'd want to pick either a super obscure (but how would you know if it was?!) or OC character!

This opinion is held by a lot of people; some people feel they might play a character wrong (my opinion? Tell me if someone tells you that because I'll happily ban them), or just doesn't like playing 'other peoples stories'.

Some of my best friends who I invited over to m1963 were gunshy on the FC thing so made some OC's and got comfortable and now have a mix of OC's and FC's.

I love OC's, myself. I'd never play on a comic game which had a culture that was negative about them.