@coin Man I was just thinking that if I was fighting with my SO, like if I was mad enough to be actually fighting, and they said that shit? It would just piss me off. I mean then you hang up/walk away and get your shit together so you can be rational and productive but dang.
@ganymede Yeah that chick gives great face as a model but holy whoah can she not act.
@ixokai Yeah I probably would have banned the "i raped myself" player, if their proposal was a bunch of innocuous shit.
@faceless I'm never trying to get a last punch in on the bannings board, I don't think. Now i have to go re-read them.
@rook are you ok? I know, personally, dozens of people who have not and would not sexually assault anyone. I don't think it's weird to assume that any given person you meet or admire the work of is not a predator. The vast majority of people are not.
@arkandel It would be a decent apology/taking ownership statement IF.
IF he hadn't been denying it for years.
IF He hadn't pretended the women accusing him of this shit were lying. FOR YEARS. I'm sorry, but I can't, and it breaks my heart because he is legit my favorite comedian of all time. But fuck you, Louis. It doesn't take any bravery at all to 'admit' something when you finally have no choice, because for the first time in our lousy, miserable history, people are starting to actually maybe sort of believe women.
Kevin Spacey, Ben Affleck, Casey Affleck, Louis CK....that last one hurts me. I was a HUGE fan for years.
@arkandel Nah, if it's just a little bit of a correction or discipline that does not result in a banning, I'd say no. No need to announce that. I might announce a clearer version of a policy if necessary, but then Arx is kind of a different beast.
@arkandel said in Staff and ethics:
@surreality So for example what's the correct generic approach to a scenario like this:
- There is an allegation that Bob is harassing Jane. Staff investigates.
Bob is found GUILTY and bans him. Does Staff announce that he's banned? Do they explain why? To what degree? To whom - is it only to those involved or to the public?
Bob is found NOT GUILTY. Does Staff announce there was an allegation at all? Do they reveal the reasons why they concluded that? If so, same question as above - to whom?
This is sensitive territory. You want to be mindful of privacy, to steer your culture correctly, to be sensitive to potentially wronged parties, etc... there are a lot of ways this can go bad.
What's the right way to do it?
At first we weren't announcing bans, because of privacy and respect to the banned parties. But then we realized people were just disappearing and it was confusing, and figured that announcing who and why would take care of that and might also serve to let people know we are super cereal about what we don't tolerate. So now we have a bannings board. I don't think there's a clear right answer, here, but I think you can come down on the side of "do what's best for the people actually playing your game' and feel all right about it.
@thenomain you link this a lot, and there's nothing wrong with it, but I don't see much in there actually pertaining to ethics.
@arkandel What she HAS actually said is that it never came down to the point she had to issue that ultimatum, because everyone who worked on Wonder Woman knew how she felt, and felt the same way. And WB had already cut ties (except a financing contract) with Ratner's company when the allegations came out.
@roz If your friendship can't survive one or the other of you saying "Hey, I think you are overreacting" or "can you please stop doing X because y?" then it's not much of a friendship, imo. And if they aren't really your friend, then why care about how they'll take it?! FREEEEEDOM! Ok the last part is silly but the first part, I mean.
But I think my feelings on the term "professionalism" are well documented. I don't like it for the sole reason that I think a lot of people take it to imply obsequiousness or being servile. I'm not about that life, and I'm definitely not down for the expectation that I will treat game obligations like a job.
The playing on their own game bullet point is a tough one. I think it would definitely be better if most staffers didn't, but then no one would staff games. I like being in on the lore-writing. The creation of setting, and history, and plot. That's super fun for me. Lots of games don't even have that stuff. I think at the very least you should not be playing in any 'sphere' or 'faction' or whatever that you are staffing for. I don't care about staff alts being transparent or not. If you can't trust staffers enough to let them play quietly, idk. What are you doing there?
? But you did equate "professional" with "paid".
@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.
@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
@gingerlily said in Reasons why you quit a game...:
I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'
I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.
because they are not paid professionals? I mean it's fine to have expectations, but...
@gingerlily Even I struggle with just saying "No" and not explaining. And I am among the most confrontational and blunt women I know of.
@gingerlily Yeah i don't think the author was thinking of games at all, but just how you can use established culture to shut down behavior without making it a big moral argument. As a staffer, I'm not trying to make players into better people, or win them over to my moral viewpoints. I just have specific things I don't want them to do/say in Arx.
This has been very helpful to me, for Arx in particular.
http://thagomizer.com/blog/2017/09/29/we-don-t-do-that-here.html
Yes, but the fight scenes there are are BRUTAL. It's not glorified, it's not fetishized, it is meant to evoke a bit of horror - and it does. I can see how that would trigger some people.