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    Posts made by Lotherio

    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      @sunny said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      @lotherio

      I don't understand what you're trying to get at. How do you expect to get a stat system to work on a game of ANY TYPE on a computer without code being involved? Are you talking about something like Roll20 where all the books and stuff are pre-programmed in, or what? Like, okay, you don't want to code, how does a game runner make things so they can be used by a computer?

      Missed my point completely. I want admin and players to want to learn the code. If someone says MUSH, I expect mushcode to work like I know it does. If its not MUSH, then why call it that? If its something new, embrace that?

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      @sunny said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      @lotherio said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      I, personally, would love the ability for players to be able to add to the game, even if just rooms, or an object that alters the desc if they want. And yes, if you played on Fifth Kingdom over the summer, you had a quota of 20 (alas, no one checks their build quota or knows about it is my guess). Its being lost, I just think we're moving away from MU and into something newer.

      Er, Arx allows for building rooms and objects and the like, as well. It's absolutely not being lost? Both Ares and Evennia (new platforms) have the ability to do this (and the flagship games for both do it), so I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I mean you're factually incorrect here.

      Rooms and building is obtuse (unintentionally on my side, my apology), do these games allow players to soft code? To make vehicles, and +phone systems, to make their own +notes systems. To make their own multidescers and organizers and whatchamajigs?

      I know I can lift quota on FS3, I've used it. For me, I'd like to be able to use other systems, I like Open D6 myself. How easy to get that on these new systems without having to reteach myself code. I suck at code and I've been learning for over 30 years.

      If altering still comes down to learning new code, even for admin, its it a step forward or a step to the side. Improving interface for players is great, but what about game runners? I enjoyed MUSH for so long because the versatility is there and all the help files on the weird things like NCAND()? Do I need NCAND, probably never, but the help file is right there telling me everything I need to know about it.

      Not trying to devil's advocate as much as everyone thinks I am, just saying why are we saying these are MUSH or MU* if its something new (something better even); and only cause if someone says MUX or MUSH, I know the versatility latent in the system's help files that I can learn in the game itself.

      I like the thread title, alternative format to MU ... its not a MU, what is it, what's its end purpose, etc. I think that could inform some discussion is all.

      And I'm down for good ol days, but they're the old days, new days are just as fine.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      @faraday said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      Also? Think about every game you've been on in the last 10 years. How often do they allow players to create substantial custom systems/objects? How often does anyone take advantage of that ability? How often does the code change appreciably after the beta period?

      Everything does seem locked down completely of late, seems its been growing far longer than 10 years too. I think in part as the lockdowns started happening in the late 90s, with good reason (all the damn dark puppets and spying), it just continued to spread to all sorts of themes.

      I, personally, would love the ability for players to be able to add to the game, even if just rooms, or an object that alters the desc if they want. And yes, if you played on Fifth Kingdom over the summer, you had a quota of 20 (alas, no one checks their build quota or knows about it is my guess). Its being lost, I just think we're moving away from MU and into something newer. Updates are fine, but I think it deserves an updated name too to distinguish it from archaic MU. I miss it, but that is truly dino philosophy and I can accept it in favor of the new.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      @roz said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      @lotherio said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      But if its cutting out the game runner's access to changing the system (a strong point in going from MUD to MUX to MUSH 25-30 years ago) to suit their themes, a part of the creativity of MU'ing is potentially being lost.

      New platform development wouldn't have to mean this.

      I completely agree, it wouldn't, depending on how its built and offered as a new tool for the immediacy of RP that a MU offers, but part of the development of the MU is also the game runner's ability to do what they want readily in the system versus on the hardcode side.

      I've seen lots of good from newer developments, but I'm also seeing this waltz back to hardcode that MUSH tried to get away from by giving admin all the softcode tools they need to make it what they want. I'm good either way, but is it really still MUSH, or something new. Tons of other RP formats out there, on-line, including immediacy of RP as has been pointed out.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      Let me try a simpler response.

      There are two groups of users to consider.

      Players. We had a good number of players migrate at one point or another from Arx to Fifth Kingdom because they wanted other themes.

      Game Runners. Who do not have all the code experience to change something and want the ability to make changes and their game unique.

      FS3 lead to an increase in potential games, good or bad (sadly the code was targeted versus the game runners at times).

      Arx has lead to an increase in players from what I've seen (Evennia based with customization from my understanding) personally.

      I see nothing wrong with any of it all, more positives this last decade I think.

      But if its cutting out the game runner's access to changing the system (a strong point in going from MUD to MUX to MUSH 25-30 years ago) to suit their themes, a part of the creativity of MU'ing is potentially being lost.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      @ganymede said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      @lotherio said in Alternative Formats to MU:

      For creative writing, all the bells and whistles can effectively be ignored; +phones and coded vehicles are clutter in the way of RP.

      I want to interject here.

      Someone else has said it, but I've had the best RP by +phone or +text. It's all mildly hilarious. My interactions with @RizBunz (with Wes) and @skew (with Ripley) were on the right side of laugh-out-loud.

      So, let's not go calling 'em clutter, man.

      Oh, I agree, +phone is great, especially if you field a call during a scene with another person, can create some very interesting RP. But a wealth of globals could be one of those hurdles for new players is all. I like bells and whistles myself, but can still be part of the clutter when staring down a new environment and wondering what all one must know to play in the environment.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      @apos said:

      Just wanted to add more cents to the pot. I re-arranged based on easiest to most difficult to address.

      1. Technical barriers for entry. Specifically downloading clients, and then figuring out extremely complicated commands in an archaic command line that's not at all intuitive. I think Ares/Evennia and a client that's much closer to what people would expect from other games would be a world of difference. Right click, drag and drop, and the typing is pretty much all for creative writing, not archaic commands.

      For creative writing, all the bells and whistles can effectively be ignored; +phones and coded vehicles are clutter in the way of RP. I think a more important question here is, what is being fixed by making new ‘systems’? What need is being addressed? If it’s the immediacy of RP that seems to only exist in a MU environment, its not really a new or updated MU that’s being created, its somewhere between MU and IRC of some sort, but its something new. There is more being lost than realized I think. We’re going from an environment (MUD) where everything was coded and automatic to this open box of creativity (MUX then MUSH then etc.) but back towards MUD.

      1. Lack of satisfying alternatives. This is the one I think a lot of people would disagree with me on, but I think minigames and giving players the ability to engage in fun side projects is nearly vital. When you look at games like Firan or RPIs that have a significant amount of coded time sinks people could optionally mess with, it adds a great deal of sustainability in creating an environment where roleplayers are accessible and filling in their time between scenes. With the nature of MU being a game environment with constant up time, I really think that if players are given tools to fill in the dead time between RP scenes, the environment becomes far healthier for it, as players are more consistently available, organic RP happens way more often, and scheduling becomes a much smaller concern. There's significant drawbacks (like to the extreme of people consciously avoiding/shutting down RP because they enjoy a tool way more than RP itself), and risks there, but I think it makes games way more accessible when someone that is having a more difficult time integrating has fallbacks aside from sitting silently in a room or listening to the loudest voices in ooc chats.

      Just a historical note, a lot of alternatives have been put in. MUDs gave mobs to begin with for focus, RP was added, many still have alternatives which is probably why they stay so popular as its not the RP (which can be found on RPI MUDs or any other MU or on a forum or any other venue as has been mentioned). Even in MUX and MUSH, from trading economies and ship mining, other things to do have been added and turn out just as you say. Some people focus on that and it creates an imbalance where the person who mines all day has a monopoly on some resources and the RP’ers have missed out.

      1. Social barriers for entry. Particularly being intimidated, with a lack of organic RP. For every really outgoing roleplayer that's a-okay with grabbing a dozen strangers and creating storylines for everyone involved, there's scores of people that are exceedingly uncomfortable with making the first move. And this is more true the more it feels like an ooc requirement. If people can just show up and RP, or have tools to do this, it is way more accessible to a new person. If we put the onus on a new player in a strange environment to reach out to strangers in order to RP, that's vastly more intimidating and difficult. Mentoring, and just a friendly, welcoming environment is really vital, and rewarding inclusive behavior.

      This should be addressed. Honestly, it feels we’re in an age of, if a person doesn’t know you, they won’t play with you. They’ll only do it for some bonus (bonus XP to RP with new players), but otherwise, they are waiting for friends to sandbox their own stories. Half are doing it in google docs. The biggest barrier I have seen lately, and I’ve played on-line RP for over 30 years, is the clique mentality. Every place I’ve tried over the past few years, if people did not know who I was, I couldn’t get a scene to save my life.

      I really want to express again, the choice of something new that removes what makes a MU a MU is fine and well depending on the purpose. IF we’re only after immediacy of RP, that works.

      My concern is the adaptability and versatility of the news systems. Its going back to the point that the system itself (game system) is being limited to what the developers want. This is closer to a MUD, which is fine and well, but we have to accept versatility is being lost. I haven’t looked much at the new systems because this is my understanding. I mean, really, if I want some other system to play in, how hard are these systems to change? Without learning a new language to code in, a new way to alter it.

      If its an update to MU in general, flexibility of the platform to include Admin ability to change how the system works should be taken into account, otherwise it feels like a step back to me to be honest. I don’t mean a change of globals like setting actors or finger notes, I mean the game system itself. FS3 is great and flexible, but in the end the dice pools aren’t much different than other systems. What if I want a system based on SAGA (cards), or WEG dice pools (your difficulty is not ‘per dice’ but the sum of the roll against 1 target number), or Amber/Fudge sans Fate Dice. How adaptable are the new systems to sweeping changes in mechanics? Or, like MUDs of old, are admin level utilizers locked to the game system that is being hard coded into these new systems?

      The biggest influx of chars over advertising on Mudconnecter/TopMudSites or directly in various forum based RP environments, is the web-based developments. A handful of new players that I've seen have bridged the gap through Arx, but wanted to try other themes, thanks to said bridge, have drifted into other games over the past year and a half or so.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternative Formats to MU

      This theme runs through several threads lately. Just to add two cents.

      I want info on wiki, not in game. I want Mu* primarily for live interaction. Converse to those who lose immersion by having to look in another window ... I lose immersion having to pull up info between poses. I need to read and respond to other poses on the same screen and if I have to start scrolling to see what I'm replying to cause it's way up in my buffer from reading info files in game, my immersion breaks. I already look at web to get medical details or other fake knowledge my character has. I'm good having 6 web Windows open separate from my client to inform my poses, but scrolling through the buffer in the scene breaks immersion for me.

      Sure clients can separate into other Windows but that's no different from web browser in conjunction with Mu* client (and yes auto combat with lots of players breaks my immersion).

      Secondary reason for wanting it on Mu* specific platform. The versatility of softcode itself. Sadly everyone is locking it down more and more. I want to code myself how my bit hears the world or use my client to pick the words to single out and alert me too. Or my own dice roller on the side to flip a coin when I'm deciding if my PC will fight to death or run foot cover or my own room. The whole reason Mus separated from MUD is lost, everyone is reverting back to hardcoded control and the very versatility we sought in Tiny MUX and MUSH is things we're taking back out of them more and more lately. The newer systems are less Mu and more something else newer.

      posted in Suggestions & Questions
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Potential Game / Temperature Read

      @ganymede Not to completely derail, but ❤ John Waters, loved he got to do a cameo as William Castle in the Crawford vs Davis Fued tv series recently so damn fitting for him.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Alternate Game Systems

      Give the cards flavor text if some sort to inspire the outcome line that TSR saga story system. Use a tarot deck or something with more unique/face cards.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Potential Game / Temperature Read

      @ganymede said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

      @lotherio said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

      ... or paramilitaristic mobile home living pink flamingo on the lawn gangs led by Tim Thomerson.

      Or Divine.

      Haha, thanks, that movie will be in my mind the rest of the day.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Potential Game / Temperature Read

      @ganymede said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

      @auspice said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

      I approve of anything with cards (look I own like, 80+ decks okay).
      But I'm not sure on the Victorian era setting.

      Then don't. It's just a setting. CF can really be applied to any time or place.

      But cards are important. I think random PCs + random cards = fun and mayhem. Make it a wacky post-apocalyptic world where your enemies are robots, but not cool Cylons or deadly IG-88s, but instead WALL-Es. Nothing but WALL-Es.

      Your enemies are also cannibals, mutants, or paramilitaristic mobile home living pink flamingo on the lawn gangs led by Tim Thomerson.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: The Hockey Thread

      @ganymede said in The Hockey Thread:

      @lotherio said in The Hockey Thread:

      Speaking of which, early in season, but Edmonton at old tricks again, damaging draft picks in earlier years or something.

      People keep saying this, but I don't think they know what the fuck they are talking about. Edmonton's problem is what it has always been: a lack of defense.

      Way back when they tried a break out form of defense that sort of looks like special teams in the zone trying to get it up ice for breakaway or odd-man rushes. They need to put that book back on the shelf and bring in some real defense.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: The Hockey Thread

      @ganymede Speaking of which, early in season, but Edmonton at old tricks again, damaging draft picks in earlier years or something. Grumble. (Nah, I'm still hopefully for the season, but want to throw out complaints that are starting to fly again).

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: MU Things I Love

      @ganymede said in MU Things I Love:

      @arkandel said in MU Things I Love:

      I want to say HM but maybe it was TR, there was a time when people thought it was unfair/close to cheating if you took a failure without failing the dice.

      People also thought the planet was flat once.

      Lies, it still is.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Potential Game / Temperature Read

      @ganymede said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

      @faraday said in Potential Game / Temperature Read:

      Really? I mean, sure if you're doing mass combats it's comparatively easy for running something, but for anything else? It's a basic "roll and count success" system just like a million other RPG systems out there.

      I don't think you fully appreciate how awesome having an tweakable engine that can run mass combats is to an ST.

      Or, how awesome having an easily tweakable engine is in general.

      Some of us can spend days/months coding something from scratch, or find bits and pieces to Frankentstien together from github and muschcode.com and other repositories. But even after other modular systems like Dahan's D6, the documentation and files to help with FS3 have made it that much more easy to use even when used as not intended. Dahan D6 (not the percentage based skill system) is easy to manipulate and is documented with its own help files but like altering weapons isn't written out and takes a good reading of the code a few times and still requires sheet tracking at times.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: FCs on Comic MUs

      @autumn

      ... forced into the USO show, alongside Bing Crosby. You're first move is whacking Bing for the treatment of his children.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: Potential Game / Temperature Read

      My vote, Magicians, sounds most entertaining. And there is this great wiki template you might be able to plug and play.

      No, Magician, for what @Arkandel said, modern world, nothing new to learn and people can figure out other things to do when not Magician'ing.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: FCs on Comic MUs

      @arkandel said in FCs on Comic MUs:

      Am I the only person here who thinks that in the context of a game like this, being a goddamn dirty mutie overrides pretty much anything regarding their sexual orientation, race, etc?

      They are already freaking out about you existing at all, you abomination. They fear and hate you. What more can they do if you're also fucking the wrong gender?

      Do I upvote if I agree, or if I think you're the only person thinking that.

      I agree. Bigger fish to fry, dang muties. I'm going to say a bad word about this, 'guts!'.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
    • RE: FCs on Comic MUs

      @tempest said in FCs on Comic MUs:

      I really think @saosmash has a point. There's nothing of note about that timeframe, except the intolerance that is specifically aimed towards women, minorities, and gays. And it feels weird.

      Nothing of note in the timeframe, or nothing of note on theme timeframe for the game?

      Because there is tons of things happening in the 60s worth exploring and developing personally from a characters standpoint, from dramatic social changes to the middle class riot (clue less rebels, motorcycle clubs), to those very groups (gender/race/etc) working to establish more rights on the homefront, to the crazy politics following WWII and then the Korean War, and getting into Vietnam. Music revolutions reflective of the changing times. Its a time when the concept of war and how it was fought was changed to the point its not the classic idea of war and resources. For powered folks, I'd imagine all the shifty world politics and plays are where staff and such aim plots.

      I've a weird concept that just normal drama surrounding like some motorcycle clubs in a cafe racer type environment could be interesting. With clashes between like motorcycle club, police, beatniks and socialists, and just old home good kids from the 50s (why we gotta be different, lets just be 'normal') could be interesting. But, that me.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      Lotherio
      Lotherio
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