@sunnyj said in New Project?:
@ixokai @WildBaboons I will try to explain myself, but I am going to preface this by saying that 1e isn't perfect by any means!
My main gripe with 2e comes from everything being too "neat", which was OPP's intention and I think it was a fucking horrible decision to do. Everything has a very narrow purpose, a shape you can only fit into one thing. The game doesn't let you figure things out by yourself. I will give examples:
Each form has a strict purpose, and I do not know why they did that shit. Instead of letting players figure out their own playstyles the book states that the Dalu is for 'clearing the room' and figuring out where the prey is, the Urshul is for rounding it up, and the Gauru is to finish it off. So they buff the Gauru out its mind, and the result is that in a 2e everyone who is not a Gauru is missing out. On 1e, you could figure things out by yourself. Do you think you have the right combination of Gifts and Fighting Styles to go Dalu? Are you one of those people who likes to shotfun their way through WoD? Or do you prefer the more reliable Urshul instead of the Gauru? Do you have Gifts that tinker with the Gauru and make it a more interesting gamble? All of that is gone on 2e. You start the fight in Gauru or Urhan, and then fight in Gauru. The book tells you that is how things happen, and the mechanics enforce that. I dislike it immensely. It homogenizes the gameplay AND makes characters samey in a scene.
Gifts in 2e not only are too powerful, but they also further shove you into roles in uninteresting ways. Now, I am not saying the Rahu shouldn't have an advantage in combat, but I am saying that they shouldn't be gods at it by sheer virtue of having picked an auspice at CG. On 1e you had plenty of options that could make the Ithaeur and Cahalith, if not competitive, fun to RP in combat. On 2e you might as well excuse yourself from the table while the Irraka and Rahu throw dice at the STs face (not a fan of powers that are basically +dice + successes + rote, etc. WoD doesn't need MORE dice). You could make an Ithaeur based around fighting with Crashing the Weave, Two-World Eyes and Wisdom of Patience + Fetishes, or a Cahalith based around frenzying and resistance in combat, a Ithaeur that debuffed people, etc. On 2e if you are not a Rahu/Irraka with Hit and Run you are basically out of combat.
Still on gifts, they are so unimaginative and lame, but SO powerful, they also make the Pure, the best antagonist of werewolf imo, complete chumps in a fight. Before a Rahu with Full Moon Gifts 5 wasn't guaranteed to win against a better trained, more aggressive Predator King ith more attributes and skills and spirit buddies. Now? Yeah. Forget it. Especially in a MU environment where people are guaranteed to have at least one Renown at 5.
So to sum up, gifts are less varied, less interesting and disgustingly powerful, because dice > flavor, I guess. One I have a special gripe with is the FIRST Ithaeur gift, which insta-exposes a spirit's ban. That used to be the source of Ithaeur scenes and quests. Now you just roll dice and that is supposed to make you feel useful? But it just ruins the whole fun of hunting a powerful spirit, imo.
Totems now can only offer extra dice, which is shit. WoD breaks with too many dice, stop giving me dice. Before you could at least buy Gifts, which was pretty cool, so a pack serving the Thunderbird could have Weather 5 Call Lightining and summon lightning from the sky. Now they get +1 Strength or whatever the fuck. Not a fan.
I could go on, but I flat out don't like how they tried to make everything fit into place and thus removed all the chaos and exploration from Werewolf. I know a LOT of people gripe on the unihar and werewolf sex, or how costly and useless Renown is, or how bad Primal Urge was, but despite its many flaws, I think Forsaken 1e tried for more, and ended up achieving more as a result. It didn't have this vibe of OPP trying to be the 'Apple of RPGs' and turning all their gamelines in 'beautiful, sleek designs'. They feel so pretentious.
Pictured: Me crying over Werewolf 2e.
I don't know where to start other than to say you are wrong on many levels much like what I've read from you on most of the posts in this thread.
Forms, you aren't locked into anything in terms of using them outside of their /strict purpose/. You can kill something in hishu or any other form. You can track and do anything you want in any form.
As for Gifts, surprise... anyone can buy any gift to include auspice/moon gifts. So you are a sneaky rahu using Full Moon and New Moon. As for being Over Powered I'd look at them vs 2e Disciplines and tell you again you are wrong.
Thank you for not taking it further.
