@tragedyjones said in Fallen World MUX!:

Status report?

They still haven't given up!

OH SNAPS!

@tragedyjones said in Bump In The Night: A Chronicles of Darkness MUX:

=============================== Announcements ================================
Message: 1/55 Posted Author
IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR THE FUTU Fri Jun 24 Sol Invictus

Dear BITN,

Effective June 26, 2016 I will be inviting Amoracchius to join me as Head Staff.

The reason is, I've just run out of jam. I will be maintaining my Wizard bit, as well as financial and final authoritative control of BITN. However, I am leaving the mundane responsibilities of maintaining plot and story, as well as player satisfaction, with Amoracchius. During the coming week(s) I imagine she will be implementing her vision of how she wishes the game to proceed.

The alternative to this, of course, would be to compeltely scuttle the game and leave everyone in the cold. At the request of my staff I have declined to do that at this time. If anyone has any questions, you may reach me at bitnmuxwiki@gmail.com.

-Sol Invictus

P.S. Coin@MSB is being made the Grand Vizier of Common Sense and Chief of Anger Mismanagement

Finally the game will be worth playing!

@Tempest said in CarrierRPI - a Survival Horror MUD:

@Thenomain said in CarrierRPI - a Survival Horror MUD:

@acceleration said in CarrierRPI - a Survival Horror MUD:

@Sab
Is there a policy on group apps?

Are group apps normally constrained on MUDs? How curious.

It's occasionally been restrained on RPIs due to power balance factors.

3 or 4 people app'ing in as a family can pretty easily take over a game and very quickly make it not fun for everybody else, due to what is largely OOC agreements between that group of players. It's easier for them secure resources, it's easier for them to cover all their own crafting needs, and they will always have each other's back when it comes to conflict, even if only for the flimsy reason of 'oh he's my bro' (which, yes, ICly is certainly a compelling reason, but OOCly not so much when that character in particular has barely been involved in any RP, and the brother has very little reason for the conflict in the first place).

Imagine if it was considered acceptable for families that app'd together into a MUSH to start gangbang PKing other players over insults in Bar RP or politics or because they want that nice rifle Joe has.

The flaw here, is people can pretty much do the same thing without blatantly app'ing in as a "family", assuming they talk to each other on Skype. And if they're going to make a family of PCs together, they're probably talking to each other outside the game.

Man... imagine how much more fun a mush could be

@tragedyjones said in CoD - LFG:

@Kanye-Qwest said in CoD - LFG:

No game has the ability to make coteries/packs/cabals? That's the only requirement I see.

No game I am aware of has all 3 options for 2nd edition i should have clarified.

Wasn't there some game called Echoes you ranted about in the past that had most spheres and was 2e?

@acceleration said in Where have all the crunchy games gone?:

While I haven't played much Shadowrun, the game's premise is specifically set up to involve skilled mercenary criminals that do whatever it takes to get paid. That may mean sweet-talking or sneaking your way past the front door, but it also involves guns, hacking, drones with guns and bombs, punches to the face, the occasional hurled fireball and probably someone running around with duct tape a med kit when things go wrong. There's lots to work with there but it's inherently built around action. With lots of action comes a risk of death.

Come on, @acceleration ... We both have played with this community and you know that none of the above is beloved, everyone wants to pretty and dancing in the rain with rainbows and all that while they go to college and play at "life?".

Meanwhile, WoD specifically has built-in emphasis on social/political interaction. In WoD mushes, this is combined with a low ST:player ratio, which reduces incidences of dice rolling for violence. When you throw that in along with MU*ers tendency to freeform RP (no PVP social roll policies being common) then the pressure and unexpected outcomes that come from bad rolls are greatly reduced.

The system itself is quite capable of being used for development of min-maxed/specialized characters, it's just that character specialization gets little opportunity to be showcased in bar scenes or the overpopulated monster-of-the-week plots that are common PRP fodder.

The WoD books are designed for tabletop (Mind's Eye Theater aside, which tbh I've never played, on top of which I've never LARPed in general), as are a lot of the systems listed in this thread. How 'crunchy' a game is is always about how the GM runs their game, which in turn is about how GMs tailor their games to their players. MU* environments don't do this well, particularly ones which don't allow sheet sharing to other players via the system and don't have any GM-specific reference notes.

With a tabletop, GMs typically have some leeway to fill in a character's background themselves, which creates a very interesting interactive dynamic. MU*ers, on the other hand, seem to prefer the idea that their backgrounds are sacred and can never be influenced in that type of manner by a GM. STs therefore will never try to do this, and playing on something in the character's past or integral to that character's personality is generally something that needs serious hand-holding or trust between GM and player to be done.

This type of thought process has generally led to WoD MU*ers playing more freeform and erring on a conservative side when it comes to letting others influence what they believe their character to be. It encourages shying away from risk taking from both ends unless the parties involved are very familiar with one another. That's a culture thing, not a system crunch thing.

All that said, a Shadowrun game without good staff will probably die faster than a WoD game without good staff, because WoD games can theoretically get by just with players.

As for that last line... Please see any game created by @tragedyjones

@Ganymede said in CoD - LFG:

@tragedyjones said in CoD - LFG:

I want to find a solid group to make a Coteria/Pack/Cabal with on a Chronicles game. Some group large enough to be self sufficient, not to say "fuck YOU, game runners" but enough that we don't gotta rely on them.

Requiem for Kingsmouth's back up. And its Off-Screen System is off and running, sort of. Staff will need to work out the kinks, but I'll bet you can find a good group to play with there.

I ran past this place and it didn't seem that put together.

@tragedyjones said in CoD - LFG:

I'm looking for the following and I thought I'd look here, because people on MSB love and respect me.

I want to find a solid group to make a Coteria/Pack/Cabal with on a Chronicles game. Some group large enough to be self sufficient, not to say "fuck YOU, game runners" but enough that we don't gotta rely on them. A group with 2-3 rotating STs to keep us satisfied.

If anyone is interested in forming a kickass group, come to Butt-Head.

Its hard to tell in text but, this part was sarcasm right? "because people on MSB love and respect me"

@DnvnQuinn said in Fallen World MUX!:

@ThatOneDude Great just what I need, another series to watch.

IT - IS - THE - BEST!

@DnvnQuinn said in Fallen World MUX!:

Yeah but a clickable, walkthrough type chargen with tabs made it super easy and besides I don't have the money to drop on a book and scrolling through a PDF is tiresome. Im so lazy...

#firstworldproblems.

Template For the Lazy

additionally...

This went through my head at this type of request (nsfw) >.>

@Kestrel said in How does a Mu* become successful?:

Just curious, if you think you're at the point in your life where you'll never be able to MU* ever again, why make this thread? My question is 100% serious. What were you hoping to learn? And what's your conclusion about MU* success potential, etc.?

A friend and I had batted around the idea of making a game. The more thought I put into it the less it sounds like something I'd want to do. I'm the kind of person that doesn't like doing things half ass, its why I'm successful in my professional life. If I were to work on a game I'd want it to be enjoyed, successful and to be able to look at the end result and be happy with what was made. To know it was done the best it could be.

I don't have the drive like I use to but I've been on the fence wondering if I shouldn't just jump into Evennia and code up a new "mu*". I have a BS in CS and know a few languages. From what I've seen of Evennia and what I know of Python it all doesn't seem too difficult. But my issue is at the end of the day I don't think I'd be happy with anything. The hobby as a whole has felt very hollow for a long time.

I don't seem to like most of the people, I don't seem to be in the same "category" in terms of life experience or where I'm at in my life and I don't really need the OOC side of Mu*'s. That just leaves the IC side which is slow, boring and more often than not feels like a huge waste of time (to me). So I think I'm done

@Thenomain said in How does a Mu* become successful?:

@ThatOneDude said in How does a Mu* become successful?:

I love PK! No one else really enjoys it for the fun it can be though

One of the people I work with plays Rust for the challenge and the back-and-forth PK. And if people you know also love it? Great! If not? Well? Why is it their problem?

I've laughed my ass off about situations where I've lost, or adored the story told, but this is my angle, and my angle doesn't work for you. Visa-versa. Note in that video (you did watch the video, right?), neither Bartle nor the Extra Credits crew said who was responsible for the fun. In fact, they say what we've always known: Those who aren't having fun leave.

In fact, that's what I get out of every time someone puts the words "mush" and "successful" together: How do we stop people from leaving?

If you're secretly trying to deconstruct BitN, I can't help you. I listen to staff chat (because coder) and I hear more "hee hee that was awesome" more than "goddamn it, insert-player-name-here", so I have to believe that staff are enjoying the game. I also have to assume that anyone playing there is enjoying themselves enough to play there, or I have to wonder about their sanity. Sounds like a winner to me.

THAT SAID, I have continued playing on games I didn't enjoy, but I enjoyed the people I was with. People are looking for the key to upward positive feedback and game growth. This is it. One person, @ThatGuyThere, has it right on. Everything past that is a deconstruction about what you enjoy about a game.

There is a certain tipping point where the game can be complete and utter shit with shit staffers and shit situations and still have a high population. I put this critical mass around 20 players. In the video (you watched the video, right?), this is the social circle. Maybe all that happens is TS and IC Drama, but hey, it's popular, right? I have to believe the people there are enjoying themselves, because anything else is just sad.

Please Note: Fun is not the same as Enjoyment. I usually assume people mean the latter when they say the former, but we can all enjoy ourselves without having 'fun'.

So yeah, +1 to @ThatGuyThere for the truest answer, and +1 to everyone else for figuring out how to make that happen.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think I've come to that point in my life where I'll never be able to mu* ever again. But I think this conversation was a good one to have in the community as a whole. More so for those people talking of making their own games and hopefully running it in a way that's good for players and themselves.

@Thenomain said in How does a Mu* become successful?:

Random Comments!

Talking about Bartle: Balancing an MMO Ecosystem - Getting a Mix of Player Types - Extra Credits

Yeah, watch this.

---

@ThatOneDude, you come across to me as a lot more of an Achiever than a Socializer, with a hint of Killer. (Okay, maybe just toward me, but anyway.) I can understand why you might have troubles settling into some Mushes as there is not enough for you to do, the PvE elements not hitting you the right way. I don't have an answer, per se, but I see part of your question as partially "why aren't I having fun". It's a question I ask myself all the time.

I may be wrong in my guesswork, but that's not the important part. I continue.

But why doesn't a small game have more achievement? It has less socializing, which itself turns to less socializing (watch the video), which leads to more people sitting waiting to do something. I think BitN does a pretty good job of creating an atmosphere where anyone who wants to run events without the drawback of having to jump through hoops. In that way, BitN is extremely successful, and I think the staff was counting on this creating the popularity that would create an upward feedback spiral.

Perhaps they need more proactive explorers (e.g., writers)? An interesting thought. Anyhow.

I love PK! No one else really enjoys it for the fun it can be though

It doesn't have to be drama if we all just remember we're playing a fucking game. I didn't really kill you, or piss in your koolaid or call your mother a whore... My PC did >.>

Even to this day, the crew I use to mush with has turned into a group I play with on the PS4. We'll be running around doing whatever and someone will laugh and quote some event from the past in a mush like:

"Remember that time... /insert laughs about PK events from past games/"

As for the bit about BITN I think I have a friend that would say the jumping through hoops part seemed built into the system. Or perhaps we hit the staff on the wrong day or spoke in the "wrong tone".

@Miss-Demeanor said in RL Anger:

@Cobaltasaurus Company policy. We have to do the same thing. I've had customers call me all kinds of names because they couldn't buy cigarettes or alcohol for having someone in their group that didn't bring their ID. Instead of them getting mad at the idiot that didn't bring their ID with them. I still don't get why full grown adults don't carry their ID around with them everywhere...

Or...

Why not just leave the joker outside? This comment is all kinds of crazy on all kinds of levels.

So if I go to the store with my parents and I'm underage and my mom wants cigarettes, since I'm with her she can't buy them?

If I'm in high school and I'm getting cigarettes for myself and my buddy who is almost of age but doesn't smoke is with me, I can't buy cigarettes?

Is this in communist Russia?! Where's Trump when you need him!?

A thread that cropped up in Random Bitching got me thinking about game design, game culture, and over all what makes Mu*'s successful. With the talk of all the games that are potentially coming down the pipe, what can they do to be successful? What is success in Mu*'s? Below is a comment that made me really start thinking on this topic and I'm curious what the rest of the community thinks/believes.

@Arkandel said in Random Bitching:

@ThatOneDude said in Random Bitching:

@Arkandel said in Random Bitching:

@ThatOneDude BITN is a very good sandbox game. As such it's the kind of MU* that can feel extremely active if you're in the right group and not so much if you're on the outside looking in.

Oooooooh, I see... So you have to be in the "in crowd"?

I don't think that's it if you mean a cliquish atmosphere - no one will exclude you, at least more than in most games. From my own (disclaimer: limited) experience but also chats with others it's more that BITN is very event-oriented.

That means when there are things happening, assuming you can into those things, it can be a blast. Monster killing, creepy encounters, it excels in those because of the golden combination: talented STs, liberal staff and absence of thematic restrictions (your wolfman doesn't need to play under the same rules as the other guy's).

The issue is what happens when there's nothing happening. There are no politics, things to get, territory to defend from other PCs, goals to attend to, special powers to work towards... so if you try to get on the grid then you're kinda limited in what there is to do.

It sounds like your experience falls into the latter case.

It sounds like the monster of the week "wait until event, don't really do much else in the downtime" isn't a bad thing.

For me I think I enjoy where plots are immersive enough that before/after/between there is MEAT to RP about. Which then leads to more events that allow for a rinse and repeat, full circle, or whatever of RP.

@acceleration said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:

IMO, the etiquette rules are typically harder to get a grasp on in MUSHes because MUDs have coded constructs to enforce the rules and are typically anti-OOC-chatting-while-playing. MUSH culture is highly dependent on who's playing the game and who you're playing the game with. Some people want minimal OOCness, on the ball posing, and are willing to get into PVP conflict. Some people don't want that at all and are likely to metapose or provide running OOC commentary. My advice is RP with different people and see who you like playing with. Unlike in a MUD construct, it's typically easier and even maybe encouraged that you avoid people whose company you don't enjoy.

What about those times when you find you dislike the company of more than 90% of the people you run across?! Does that mean its PS4 time?!

@Apos said in Base Code Question:

@Lithium Personally, if I was trying to do the same thing, I probably would give evennia a try. I think python is a lot easier to learn than much more complicated soft code even though it's a hard code language, so if you are in the situation of like trying to adopt tinymush style lisp-like language or taking an evennia game out the box and customizing it in python, I think it'd be much less of a headache going with python. As I recall, evennia out the box already comes with a MUD like split of a player object vs the character object they are puppeting, so I don't think it would be so bad to go from that to leaving corpse objects on the ground that animate.

Agree. With what I've read and seen this would probably be your best bet for the type of game you're thinking of making. Python isn't that hard of a language and it gives you the added benefit of actually learning a language that can be used outside of just a small sub set of games that use a super out dated system.

Nice! We've played together before and it was a blast. Hope to see you around!

@Coin said in Good TV:

@lordbelh said in Good TV:

@Coin RIP Banshee. I also wish they'd had a full last season.

It was only two episodes short of a full season. I don't think the story could have gotten stretched out much further this season, anyway. It was a decent, impactful end. Mothafuckah. </Job>

Man, I'm sad to see Banshee go but it sure did have a good run.

Job was the man! Or...

I watched the first episode of Outcast and it made me a fan. Looking forward to watching the story unfold.

I hope Preacher works out as well.

@ShelBeast said in The Descent MUX:

In truth, I'm still looking at options and searching for ways to prevent the whole idea of nothing but combat oriented characters. Like I said, this kind of setting DOES lend itself towards that aspect easily. So, I'm looking at ways to provide incentive for diversity, rather than looking at ways to restrict undesired behavior. As Taika has pointed out, there's a lot of different things that need to be done. Playing a combat heavy vamp might have it's place, but the reality of the situation is that it will only take you so far in a world like this.

I only have to point to the Governor and Neagan from TWD to prove my point in this. The guys who want to rule through violence wind up not being as secure as they thought they were going to be and also even they couldn't do it on the backs of just other combat oriented characters. They're just not self-sustaining.

Well I've learned if you have plots and events where the combat heavy (focused only on combat) aren't effective then you'll have players that will make balanced characters.

So if events consist more of things like: OH SHIT THE DAMN IS FALLING APART! We need crafts, we need science we need stuffs! With some light combat and other exciting things, you can have a blast. Most games don't do that and instead focus on the combat part. "You've killed all the guys that were fucking up the damn, FTB and in the aftermath you repair everything."