I'm willing to believe that Mudders genuinely don't understand how their description would be misunderstood, because this is a very human thing to assume, and has been assumed across all of recorded history.
I'm also willing to believe that some of their reaction to the lashback on this is "It's not for you", for the same reason.
@Misadventure said:
Useless trivia: GURPS has means of equating training time to XP. The amount of XP needed to be at the level of skill of Special Forces as assessed by the Steve Jackson Games required a special exception to make them possible.
GURPS is about as balanced as the World Trade Towers on 9/11. Magic: The Gathering has better game balance than GURPS. I'm not sure which has less balance: GURPS or Steve Jackson.
I don't think Eldritch has moving caps. It has diminishing returns for auto XP. All other beats are earned the same no matter who you are or how long you've been on the game.
@Ninjakitten said:
@Thenomain
...who were you playing at the time?
Some hard-nosed House Dougal Seelie Sidhe smith. I can't remember her name anymore.
@Jeshin said:
I will admit I probably missed the point
Because there was more than one. This is the problem with conversation-by-mob-OMG. You did hit one of them.
@Ninjakitten said:
Paris LFDM:
Etienne (Mortal, 2002-2003)
I almost certain I remember this, even playing a Sidhe at the time as I was.
Incidentally, I have never been paid for all the work I've done for any game. I turned payment down, once, for our gracious site host. I've seen staffers get upset when they don't get any special recognition for running the game and rarely they end up quitting over it. This is fine because rule #1 of any game is that you play it because you want to.
When I've played, it's because I enjoy playing. I sincerely believe the idea of demanding extra kudos for playing more than someone else as selfish. Getting extra kudos as a thank you, as a gift, sure, but not out of some kind of necessity of fairness and balance..
I've never bought into the idea that if you work harder for a game you deserve payment, or that if you're new then you should be allowed to be at the level of the people who aren't. This discussion started many years ago in response to The Dino Problem, wherein people have so many Magic Hoojum Points that they drag down the game for others around them. In the discussion of XP, this is most likely the problem of one character solving game-related issues without needing to engage anyone else.
Past that, the idea of XP seems to be based upon the culture of that particular game.
Darkmetal implemented a player-maintained Renown system for (oWoD) Werewolf.
It was horribly abused and people would stir up a storm whenever they were down-voted, so rank ended up meaning nothing.
Unless you ride that unicorn off a cliff and it explodes improbably.
@surreality said:
Arguments of varying degrees of civility usually happen because, in a nutshell, people give a crap and don't agree about something. I mean that's common sense, but it's pretty easy to lose sight of in the heat of things.
My experience in this community wrapped up in two simple sentences.
I miss Brus for things like this. Don't you miss Brus?
One of the phrases I've been hearing more and more, on forums and in the real world, has been "violently agreeing". This is a risk of giving too much of a crap. The other risk of giving too much of a crap is going too far.
Not that I know about any of this.
THE @THENOMAIN PRINCIPLE goes on to say that it's fine to introduce supplements as long as the player with only the core book is not at a severe disadvantage without them. I don't exactly know what "disadvantage" means here, but it could mean being locked out of role-play opportunities because you don't know the setting or rules introduced whole-cloth later on, or it could mean missing out on character builds that make the core-book builds useless.
In the case of 7th Sea, e.g., this could mean don't assume everyone knows that the Queen of England has bone cancer and is going to die if that information was introduced in the England books.
If a player wants to build something from an expansion, tho, they need to read the effing book.
@Jeshin said:
I did refrain from censoring anything they said (I have a thing about censorship) and I did it because of two reasons.
- This board appears to have a culture where gloves off discussion has to take place between an understanding can be made.
I think we have gone beyond "gloves-off discussion". I think we have been past this for a few hundred posts. I believe we have been past the "nuh-uh/yuh-huh" stalemate for a while as well. This is barely more than bullshit for the sake of bullshit. One of your cohorts came here specifically to stir things up under the guise of helping. That's not "gloves-off". That's trolling.
In the same vein I decided that allowing my staff to speak openly and freely on a personal level would lead to (hopefully) a progression of the discussion to a new place we could continue on from.
You'll have to ask @crayon specifically, but I think it made it worse, or changed it not one iota. It didn't seem to affect what he said here, which I don't think is a bad thing but I dunno.
Imagine if someone here went to OR and started bitching about your policy as though it was Soapbox. I don't want that person to be me, but at those times where I said I wouldn't post there, this is half of why. I would be the loud dissenter, the nay-sayer, creating antagonism and claim it's free-speech. It's something I can do pretty well. I imagine one of your administrators would think I am a "problem" that would need to be "dealt with", and if I was just being overly cautious before I think now have proof what OR would do with viewpoints they think need "handled".
- We have been discussing OR and how it works as a community a lot and since Musoapbox (out of all other communities) has been the greatest contributor to message clarification and introspection.
Awesome. Can your cohorts please stop calling us stupid, then? Kthx.
Bonus 3 - I was dealing with real life stuff and trust both my staff which I think paid off? I feel like the general vibe is improving.
Can you please give us a citation for that? I trust @crayon more because he was willing to talk instead of play forum-games. Well, I'll admit that he's always been willing to talk, but he was willing to say, "Look, posting here is a pain in the ass." There is telling people things and there is explaining your position, and this is an example of going from the former to the latter.
(Sorry to use you as the example, Crayon. I figure Jeshin needs examples that are close to home. Likewise, thank you for willing to be candid.)
Yeah, it kind of is a pain in the ass to post here. It doesn't have to be. A lot of Soapbox is what you expect it to be, the rest of it is what others want it to be. That's a pain in the ass but it's not difficult to change. I just don't see that it has.
It's been said before, and so far agreed upon by those not part of the Optional Realities administration, that of the three OR representatives posting here, there are three different ideologies about what their board is about. I will admit that Crayon and Jaunt's ideas are closest, but Jeshin is in charge of OR. Miscommunication is not just happening here, but it looks like it's also happening within the OR boards.
I've lived through this exact situation through too many games. I become bitter and old when I see people unaware to the point of creating a monster. A lot of you will see this as "almost every game ever created". Video games manage to get made, yet we--supposed adults--can't even manage to see drawbacks without taking it personally?
I work in an industry where real theft of property exists, and the people who are responsible for the losses manage to both take it personally and not let it affect them too much. It stresses them out, sure, but they have a job to do. They agreed upon it when they took the job.
I may not agree with @Jeshin's approach, but he's shown himself to be this kind of person. Jesh, you may be frustrated by the posts here, but even those who disagree with you have said they respect you that much. We, they, are willing to give you as much time as you want or need to do what you think is right, but for chrissakes, listen to @Ninjakitten, listen to @il-volpe. Ignore the rest of the anticonformist bullshit, even from your own people (unless you're looking for reviews about wine, I guess). These two are trying to explain what the rest of this thread has been about. That they are willing is a godsend. You are willing, too. Have the willing minds meet.
Ignore the rest.