RL Anger

Ganymede

Well, I don't claim it's harmless. I was just dubious of "it's just as bad as cigarettes" since by all accounts this is emphatically not true.

Frankly, I haven't seen reliable studies either way. Look at it this way: much like using a bong, vaporized material is far easier to inhale than smoked material. I've seen people suck in massive amounts of cloud-like vapor in a way that I've seen few cigarette smokers. That shit can't be good for you, and is definitely not harmless.

Personally, vaping is actually harder for me to stomach. That glycerine makes my lungs feel like they've been caked in asphalt after a couple of minutes, something that I simply don't get from cigarettes. Given that cigarettes have this huge stigma, I smoke socially and on occasion; however, whereas vaping is found more acceptable due to the lack of an unpleasant aroma (no matter how pungent) vapers are doing it far more they would normally smoke.

Smoking cigarettes. Smoking weed. Inhaling vapor. It's all probably a bad thing, and the delivery of more nicotine seals the deal for me. That shit is downright awful to your body.

So, my argument is anecdotal, and should be given the same weight.

But, as @Thenomain said, vapers around our parts are downright asses about that shit, and need to be given a fucking steel-toed colonoscopy more often than not.

WTFE

Well I was specifically addressing "likely just as damaging to others" (emphasis mine) part of your claim. I have no doubt that vaping is bad for the vaper; I just think it's likely less bad than smoking (based on admittedly limited knowledge). But for others, I'm ~~pretty sure~~ almost positive it's a whole lot less bad.

Tinuviel

@WTFE There was an article I read somewhere (I'll see if I can find it when I have time) that said the heating element might be unstable enough for copper particles to leech into the fluid it's heating, and thus will be breathed in (potentially causing problems) and breathed out (also potentially causing problems.) The 'phenomenon' of vaping is too new and the studies too poorly funded for us to know anything for certain right now.

The main point, though, is that smokers generally will move, or seclude themselves, or whatever. Not out of shame, but out of decades of developed decency. Persons who vape seem, from my own limited experience and with one or two exceptions, to want people to know they vape. And to demonstrate "ooh how cool" it is.

Just because something might not strictly-speaking be illegal (YMMV of course), like vaping on a train... that doesn't make it acceptable.

WTFE

@Tinuviel said in RL Anger:

@WTFE There was an article I read somewhere (I'll see if I can find it when I have time) that said the heating element might be unstable enough for copper particles to leech into the fluid it's heating, and thus will be breathed in (potentially causing problems) and breathed out (also potentially causing problems.) The 'phenomenon' of vaping is too new and the studies too poorly funded for us to know anything for certain right now.

So as of right now we're working in the dark on vaping whereas the hazards of smoking have been well-documented since the '50s.

The main point, though, is that smokers generally will move, or seclude themselves, or whatever. Not out of shame, but out of decades of developed decency.

Decades of having decency beaten into them, ITYM. Keep in mind that I lived through the transition from "almost everybody smokes" to "smoking is done between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home". Smokers not all that long ago were complete and utter fuckwits who needed the legal beatdown they got.

Persons who vape seem, from my own limited experience and with one or two exceptions, to want people to know they vape. And to demonstrate "ooh how cool" it is.

So like smokers in the '60s and '70s?

Tinuviel

This isn't a smokers vs vapers debate. There's no sense arguing that smoking is bad. We know that. We also, or rather I also, don't care. I like it, I'm gonna keep doing it.

The point is this: Smoking is bad. Vaping is also bad. Doesn't matter if it's the same bad, slightly less bad, or more bad. It's still fuckin' bad. The smoker's behaviour has been, as you want to say, beaten into them. Persons that vape need to adopt a similar behaviour. That is the entirety of the discussion.

JinShei

Vaping has been studied somewhat - this in 2014 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110871/) and this (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4110871/) due to be released in september but the abstract seems interesting.

WTFE

@Tinuviel said in RL Anger:

This isn't a smokers vs vapers debate. There's no sense arguing that smoking is bad. We know that. We also, or rather I also, don't care. I like it, I'm gonna keep doing it.

And, despite being a non-smoker, and despite thinking that most tobacco (specifically cigarettes and cheap cigars) smells like ass, I actually support you in this ... provided you're not where I must be (like the workplace). You're in the same realm as people who wear shitty perfume as far as I'm concerned: it's a personal choice, just please make it away from me. (And I'll burn my incense far away from you in return…;) I think some of my fellow non-smokers are total and complete fucking assholes. (Like some of my fellow atheists, only somehow more off-putting. Yes, more off-putting than capital-A Atheists. I have no idea how they accomplish this!)

The point is this: Smoking is bad. Vaping is also bad. Doesn't matter if it's the same bad, slightly less bad, or more bad. It's still fuckin' bad. The smoker's behaviour has been, as you want to say, beaten into them. Persons that vape need to adopt a similar behaviour. That is the entirety of the discussion.

I'll be alongside you swinging fists at asshole vapers, trust me. All I addressed was Gany's claim that vaping was "just as bad" as smoking for those around them. I'm pretty sure the science isn't in on that at all and what little there is says it's not as bad on the surroundings as smoking is. That's the entirety of what I said that started this whole kerfuffle.

WTFE

Oh, full disclosure: I tried vaping. Me being who I am, I got caffeine vape sticks, not nicotine. It wasn't unpleasant. It wasn't especially pleasant either. I won't be repeating the experience.

Ganymede

@WTFE said in RL Anger:

All I addressed was Gany's claim that vaping was "just as bad" as smoking for those around them. I'm pretty sure the science isn't in on that at all and what little there is says it's not as bad on the surroundings as smoking is.

To be clear, my point is based on anecdote and personal observation. I question the science on both ends.

Meg

Yeah, people really dgaf about vaping wherever. My co-workers vape in our office. It's weird and just kind of questionable. I have to say, I don't care where people vape, but even as a smoker, I would care if someone was smoking in my office. Beyond the smell, it's the amount of smoke that gets to you from across a room.

That's also why I hate pot. The smell is rank, yes, but the amount of smoke that gets to you when they have a joint or a pipe is outrageous. It doesn't dissipate as easily. (Hotboxing, anyone.)

Can we all agree that anyone who smokes marijuana in public should be shot on sight? (Just in like, the foot.) I don't care if that shit is legal, man, it's really really hard to get away from your smoke.

SG

Is vaping anything like using a hooka? I've come across articles that claim hookas are worse than smoking simply because the sessions last much longer, so instead of having like 2 cigarettes an hour, people are constantly hooking(?) over the hour.

Coin

@Meg said in RL Anger:

Can we all agree that anyone who smokes marijuana in public should be shot on sight? (Just in like, the foot.) I don't care if that shit is legal, man, it's really really hard to get away from your smoke.

No. We can agree that vaping, pot smoking, and tobacco smoking should all be regulated by the same rules, mores, and laws, regarding where it can be done, though.

Ganymede

@Meg said in RL Anger:

Can we all agree that anyone who smokes marijuana in public should be shot on sight? (Just in like, the foot.)

Around people that don't want that stink on them? Sure, that's a dick move.

You walking specifically to where someone is happily smoking their weed, and telling them to stop or buzz off? That makes you the asshole.

@SG said in RL Anger:

Is vaping anything like using a hooka? I've come across articles that claim hookas are worse than smoking simply because the sessions last much longer, so instead of having like 2 cigarettes an hour, people are constantly hooking(?) over the hour.

They are not the same thing. A hooka is basically a bong through which you smoke flavored tobacco.

@Coin said in RL Anger:

No. We can agree that vaping, pot smoking, and tobacco smoking should all be regulated by the same rules, mores, and laws, regarding where it can be done, though.

I think it's pretty simple.

If you're going to do something that makes you smell like shit or downright pungent, don't start it up around people who do not want to be around a powerful stench.
If you come upon someone doing something that makes them stinky, don't walk into their space and demand that they leave you fucking cunt.
Whatever you might think about the stench, don't be a fucking uppity prick about it like most of the fuckwad vapers that pop up where I enjoy watering myself.
Although vaping is not the same as smoking, if an establishment is non-smoking don't fucking vape in it, you cockjobber.
Tone it down with the perfume, Janice. You can't cover your stink of failure with some Liz Taylor shit.

I mean, it's pretty basic etiquette among smokers that you don't light up around a non-smoker without asking them if it's okay first. That's where this all stems from, for me.

Rook

Nice perfume. Must you marinate in it?

Meg

@Ganymede

eh. Not so simple, man. Not so simple. If a guy is alone in a park, smoking some weed, and I want to bring my hypothetical kids to play there, telling him to leave doesn't make me the cunt. (Especially since I don't know anywhere in the United States where it is legal to smoke weed outside of private residences.)

I'd say the same with even regular cigarettes. If you're alone, sitting on a kid's swing and smoking a cigarette-- Someone telling you to GTFO if they have a reason to be there doesn't make them the cunt. It makes you the cunt for being there in the first place.

There's an onus on the smoker to also be aware of where they are and why people might want to be in that space. At a concert, at a park, etc. And to realize that their /stench/ isn't the only thing affecting others. Asthma, allergies, etc. There are actual health issues involved. So it's easy to say 'go find your own space' but when you're say-- at a concert with a billion people smoking in various ways, man, there's no way to find your own space away from the smoke floating everywhere.

If you are in a place where no one needs to be in, where there are plenty of other similar places they could occupy that you are not in, then yes, the onus is on them or me or whoever in this case to take a step however many feet away and find their/my/god's own place.

Ganymede

@Meg said in RL Anger:

If you are in a place where no one needs to be in, where there are plenty of other similar places they could occupy that you are not in, then yes, the onus is on them or me or whoever in this case to take a step however many feet away and find their/my/god's own place.

This is true. I'd roll it into the first tenet in the five rules, and modify it thusly:

If you're going to do something that makes you smell like shit or downright pungent, don't start it up around people who do not want to be around a powerful stench or in an area that is likely to see a lot of public traffic.

Kind of, like, don't fucking fart in the elevator, even if no one's around.

Catsmeow

Ehhhh......

As a non-smoker (of all the things) and a parent, I'm going to have to disagree. You don't own the public property. The city owns the park and if they don't have a no smoking rule, you are the dick to roll up on someone and tell them leave. As well, you are a dick in general for rolling up on someone engaged in a legal activity and telling them to leave. How entitled is that?

It is legal to smoke weed in a state that has ruled it so. You can have X amount on you. You can smoke it in public, etc.

If I rolled up on the park and there is already someone on a park bench or hell even the swings smoking a cigarette. I would just relocate to another area of the park. That person has just the same right to be there as I do. They don't have less because they are over a certain age or haven't spawned like I have. This goes with all legal substances that can be smoked. They were there first. We are getting far too entitled.

Now, if it was a school (not public property but hey they tend to let you use their play stuff), then I'd be like whoa dawg. Or if I was there first playing with my child and someone rolled in smoking, I'd be like -- um.. dude, since we were already here, can you extinguish that until we leave or take it over there?

I mean.. this is not a hit at anyone, it's just my opinion on it.

Meg

@Catsmeow

uhm, literally no. It's illegal to smoke marijuana in public in Colorado. Edit to add: In Washington too. Must be done on private property, out of the view and smell of general public. Edit edit to add: You cannot smoke weed in public in Nevada or California, either. You can possess it but not smoke/consume it on public property.

And agree to disagree about public spaces. If you're in a place where there is going to be a lot of expected traffic and you're smoking, you are the asshole in that situation.

Also agree about elevators. Don't fart in elevators, guys.

Catsmeow

@Meg

Last I checked it was legal in California and Washington. I know it's legal in Nevada. So it's apparently a state by state thing. So if it's illegal in your state... yeah, don't do it. If it is legal in your state though...

Also, it's not a hit at you personally. I'm cool to agree to disagree and still respect you in the morning.

I also think of it like this (we'll use Nevada because I know it's legal there - sooooo many meetings about it). Let's say I have high anxiety (I do) and depression (yep) and my life is just sucking ass right now. I have legal pot in a legal state that allows public consumption. I happen across a park with no rules posted against smoking (a lot DO have rules posted against it). I see a swing. I think hey, no one is around I just want to get high and swing until I feel better in this public location. So I light up. I swing. I try to feel better and then this person strolls in with a dog/kid/self and demands I leave the public area. I just think that's a little asshole-ish of that person.

However, as a non-smoker. It does make me grr face when I have to smell like it, but my choice to be around it too.

So we do disagree, but I'm not saying you are wrong at all just different thought patterns on the issue.

EDIT: It is apparently illegal to smoke it in Nevada now too. @Meg is right. I didn't look at other states. So you are a dick to smoke illegal things in public.

Ghost

My EDGELORD son just gave a delinquent teen $100 of his birthday money for a $30 cell phone. The kid he bought the cell phone from has told him he will get back to him in a few weeks with a different $70 smartphone to match the $100 my kid paid him.

...Jesus Christ.

The $30 phone is probably stolen or shady.
Since my kid is an EDGELORD, when I asked him "why didn't you just give him 30 for the cheap phone and tell him when he has the better phone, you'll give him the $70 then? Don't pay for promises in cash, kiddo." his response was (basically) WTF DAD YOU THINK I'M A FAILURE, U DONT GET IT, AUGH, BlackVeilBridesMyChemicalRomance!!!

Love that kid, with all my heart, but he can be so dumb.