Posts made by Ghost

Yeah and that # of players per scene, to me, was a time equation. I can't tell you how many nights I had FOUR HOURS to RP and it ended up being three, maybe four, poses; the first being a pose in and the last being my "gotta go to bed pose-out". When it takes an hour or more for the turn order to cycle back to you, it felt like a time sink more than anything, which drove whatever latent ADD I had up the freaking wall.

There's got to be a better way to compartmentalize scene elements so more players are relevant and get some good RP in, but ALSO allows for more than 8 people to RP.

@lotherio Yanno the BEST conversations I have had on this forum or with other people in the hobby have all been related to stuff like tech, ideas, games we'd like to see, how ARES works, and really just sharing COOL BRAINWAVE stuff with fellow people in the hobby. Sad I missed the boat on those ARES discussions. I probably would have dug those a lot, but I've also had plenty of them on the side with @faraday

@lordbelh I agree with what you said. A short while back I typed "I 100% do not intend to look at myself critically, come to the expectations/revelations that you have, and then submit my adherences to those expectations for review to you and your friends" and I think it's an important point. I always had an issue with the approach to how people blended the concepts of "alerting people to problem player" and "publicly ridiculing someone", and I think the latter always carried this very uncomfortable element of desiring one's "pound of flesh".

There is NOTHING wrong with alerting people to conduct issues with the interest of keeping the hobby safe. It's a sensible thing to do, but also runs the risk of it being used as a "vengeance engine" because it's obvious that people's willingness to believe first-hand accounts is high. Better to be safe than sorry, right? But I don't think that's exactly what was happening in the Hog Pit.

I think there were honest cases of people reporting on problem players (people like OPP, VASpider, whoever), but things went off the rails and it ventured into "...and then also publicly shame people you don't like, who disagree with you, and in some ways extort them into silence or certain behaviors by using their popularity or ability to find RP as leverage." To my perspective I always asked "how much blood are they looking for?" when considering whether or not it was malice or an honest reporting of bad behavior, and I think when you look at it that way the number of seriously bad players is far less than the number of people who were attacked using the Hog Pit as a vector. I'm glad to see that some sort of stopgap to that has been put in place.

As for "split community?"

I think it's better to look at this as simply 2 places where people from the community can gather. Personally, I think that that other place is going to be interesting because from what I've seen they're congratulating people on their insults in parting over here...so WILL people opt-in to a forum that has decided to continue to allow bullying, somewhat moderated by the bullies themselves, and subject themselves to "more of the same" that was happening here before the changes? I think you're going to find there's not going to be as much "juice from the squeeze" there than there was here 6 weeks ago. Bullies need victims.

This place has an honest chance to promote itself as the change in the community that so many people in the community want to see, and with time some people may find that really what was needed all along was a private space for those people who loved the Hog Pit for the pure schadenfreude of it to be sequestered to their (in my opinion) toxicity. Again, bullies need victims and a place where people have more controls over becoming a victim will be less attractive to a bully.

@ganymede said in Review of Recent Bans:

The way I see it, if my reputation ever meant anything to anyone, then maybe they would have reached out via PM to discuss the matter.

This.

@ganymede said in Review of Recent Bans:

And I now believe, after 20 years, that the idea that public shaming will cause a change in behavior is pretty vain,

This

@ganymede said in Review of Recent Bans:

So, we are going to be better and kinder, and have knitted this idea into the fabric of the forum.

Thank you.

I have 2 cents about the whole matter but I'll keep it to myself and simply say that I didn't envy the position you found yourself in, support you in standing your ground against bully behavior, and think you're a nice person.

@misterboring Shrug. and? You're taking a response that I took to someone who came to Reddit to bully me as a sign that I'm not believing in what I say about an entirely different forum. A little prestidigitation, there.

Good effort to stir up shit, though.

The context of that response (which has been cleverly omitted in lieu of trying to make some sort of super important argument about me being a hypocrite) was about the "clique" and their bullying and how I felt about their toxic behaviors, bullying, and how unironic it was that 20 of them showed up to a thread I was in on a completely different service to dogpile me. Others who were familiar with the Hog Pit had brought it up, too.

There's nothing wrong with me being happy to see this place take a more respectful approach on an individual basis, and that I feel that way about that group of people (as stated on another completely different service) has no relevance towards my hopes of how things go here.

These people try so hard.

@notsanni That's a rather generous assessment of what happened there. Was happy to see all of the "not bullies" show up to give "constructive feedback". Eyeroll.

@devrex This is one of the issues I had when I was mushing, and part of my decision to give it up.

Basically, I'd have work, home life, kids, etc. While all of that was going on I was in this constant state of FOMO (fear of missing out) to the point that I downloaded a MU client onto my phone and would sneak in logins while at work. I'd also do google doc writing where we used Google Docs as the space during the day when I couldn't login.

Basically, the 24/7 "something's always going on and you're missing it" state was a FOMO nightmare.

What worked best for me was just to take the "when I'm here, I'm here" approach, sign up for events when I was able, and do my best to stay relevant. Regardless, the "all the time" crowd are usually the big movers and shakers, and due to that they tend to get the most RP. I would have liked to see a MU or two in my day that was "only active during specific hours". I think that would have resonated with me. Something that was like "We open our doors at 1pm PDT and close our doors at 11pm PDT" where people login at the same time, RP, and then log out to sleep.

@selira I 100% do not intend to look at myself critically, come to the expectations/revelations that you have, and then submit my adherences to those expectations for review to you and your friends....who would inevitably either decide that despite my efforts I'm still (as you put it) a slimy piece of shit or happily place me on some kind of regular probation where I'll suffer ridicule again if I don't continue to agree with their assessment on everything.

I find it silly that you would assume that failure to do so means I only care about my own opinion about myself. In truth, I only care about the opinions about me of the people who behave with respect and dignity whose constructive and respectful opinions have worth.

Sometimes, the right person thinking you're a slimy piece of shit actually means you're probably a good person, depending on the source.

@zombiegenesis I think that's an excellently worded summary, to be honest.

Even right now, the people who are still banned (some who are coming back to start trouble) are just gathering and saying nasty things about pretty much anyone who ever told them no or disagreed with them. It's super toxic and it's really not constructive to any sort of rationally comfortable environment that reasonable people would want to be a part of. It's just NOT OK.

I'd originally intended to hang back even if my ban was lifted, but seeing that an attempt is being made to course correct from "unmitigated personal attacks" to "trying to be more positive and foster an environment of respect"? I'm hanging around to see what's up. I'm glad to keep communicating with a vast number of you.

I think the major issue in the end is the concept of "reputational income" and what happens if you have a bad reputation being in this constant "eye of the beholder" state with some very disrespectful, very demanding, and very unfair people. You see a lot of posts from them with the "you need to change your behavior or else..." verbiage from them, and I recently likened it to someone like the mafia asking you "are you sure this is what you want?" after an extortion attempt.

Maybe people can just be regular people, right? With flaws, who make mistakes, who aren't perfect, and who don't need to live up to the demands and expectations of the same 15 or so blowhards with superiority complexes that demand everyone meet their standards or face ridicule/belittlement?

@selira You should know that it appears that you care more about me than I do your opinion about me. How about you stop carrying this around and move on with your life? Alas, clapping back at bullies is different from preying on innocent people with self-esteem issues who weren't looking for a fight, and you're clearly looking for conflict.

Be nice to me and others and I'll be cool with you. It's that simple. Let it go and gabble for updates with your make-believe assumptions about who I am with people who will pat you on the back for it elsewhere.

Hey gang, just wanted to share something that might interest people who are into podcasts. A friend of mine is a part of "THE REDACTED REPORTS", which is an "actual play" (where they play the Delta Green RPG and record it) podcast. For those not in the know, Delta Green takes place in the "Call of Cthulhu" universe where a team (delta green!) of investigators is sent out to track cults, murderers, and the threats of the Old Gods.

It's a fun time, so give it a listen!
TRR on Spotify
TRR Facebook
Patreon

Also, since I've been made aware just how much people from another forum are watching this forum (eyeroll. Totally not bullies!), I think I should say:

I don't deny that I haven't always been positive. HOWEVER, I'd like to point out that it's been a long, long, long, long time (I can't remember an instance, but will never say never) since I came out to bully or belittle someone to be mean or punch down on them. I have, however, regularly punched back at bullies and mean people (especially since I quit the hobby and was no longer able to be retaliated against) because there were and are a number of disrespectful, pushy bullies who like to belittle and punch down on people for sport. It was in my opinion that some of those people deserved to get clapped back for those behaviors. Sometimes mean people need to be pushed back.

I'd like to see a community in the hobby where those elements (or the urges to clap back because people are being mean) aren't necessary where I can make friends and swap ideas.

@testament said in Positivity Going Forward...:

@hella said in Positivity Going Forward...:

@ghost it's self selection and hopefully a necessary evil of the evolution of MSB that will dwindle with time.

Kind of like when you said you were leaving mushing/MSB, right? If you want to come back, fine. But there isn't really a need to hide it.

Eh, being constructive? I've never seen this forum to be entirely about "currently being in the hobby". There are/were plenty of highly vocal Hog Pitters who didn't play or quit ages ago who had opinions on the hobby and what goes on it in that weren't bullied for it. All of that "you said you quit why are you still here?" stuff is just a bullying tactic.

Reality is that if you spend 10 years or more (or any quantity that has meaning) in your life within a certain hobby and still have friends who are in the hobby, hanging around to hear the news and keep tabs is just fine. No one should be bullied for that.

Yikes.

Also I should note: I'm not saying everyone needs to agree with my views on TS/Romance in some cases being treated like "pseudo-dating". If you disagree? COOL. I just feel this way and thus (up until my end of mushing) marked it as something to be very very very very careful about.

@hella Agreed.

@bloodangel I can see clearly that you view yourself as "the little man", with your big behaviors designed to misbehave and be held accountable for it, and then claim they were fascist for acting on rules you chose to agree to when you chose to stick around!

My powers of observation are detecting a "I'm going to break the forum rules on behavior and personal attacks purposefully to get banned, and then when I am banned for it will use it as some kind of proof that the bannings are unfair...despite the fact that I purposefully chose to be rude to -get- banned...which makes little sense" tactic.

@ganymede You were fucking GREAT. We laughed, had good times, you were never WEIRD and it was just fun! 10/10 one of the cases where it was really just chill and perfect. Thanks for our RP being a great memory. 100% of the time it was all about fun and just writing fun shit, and when I needed to take a break you were "hope to see you again!" and not "MOTHERFUCKER YOU BEST SPLAIN THIS".

Also one of the last, if not my last foray, into writing that kind of stuff. When things went "BAD" I just felt....responsible. Like...I dont know who they were or what led things to get that level of weird, but clearly there was more going on in their RL/OOC side of things and I felt bad that I helped insert emotional issues into their RL. I felt weirdly responsible, so I kept away from that stuff a lot.

@saosmash said in Review of Recent Bans:

since more than ten years had passed your behavior might have changed and that you might have grown out of some of your patterns.

Macha is not required, nor responsible for, your opinions on their "behaviors", which are doubtlessly filed under do what I want and behave what I want or I will publicly show concern about how everyone thinks you need to do what I want and behave how I want.

Alas, this contretemps is demonstrative of a disinclination to find a conclusion bound in mutuality.

@bloodangel I fail to understand the humor behind one failing to properly drink their drink.

Though if someone WERE posting a gif to be insulting and rude (and thus were unwilling to use their own words to speak their mind out of fear of repercussions for being rude/disrespectful), I would say that they were fitting the exact profile of the kind of people I was referring to in my OP, and would then be a part of the problem rather than the solution.

But I am unable to extrapolate any of that from that poor lady spilling what is probably a good portion of a $5 latte.