Posts made by Ghost

@Roz Non-sarcastic reply?

I don't know the answer to that question.

I believe the behaviors and mob-rule factor of MSB/WORA to be more of an impediment to constructive conflict resolution. I've handled plenty of issues quietly and maturely 1on1, and I'm not entirely sure the best way to handle when people have issues with other players on a larger scale. I do know that there are people who abuse this process by spreading misinformation out of scorn, having been a victim of that sort of thing, myself.

So I'd hate to see such an open forum used to attack innocent players by claiming they're a witch! and throwing them on the fire to see if they burned. Something about it just seems...really risky and could result in a lot more issues than issues resolved. That's all.

@Thenomain said in A Constructive Thread About People We Might Not Like:

@Ghost said in A Constructive Thread About People We Might Not Like:

I would like to state for the record that my 'quoted' comment above was not intended to in any way start any sort of actual mob-rule banning effort, nor was it intended to start anything, really.

Then my Rhetorical Question sensor is on the fritz, sorry.

It's all good. If YOU want to start that up? Go right ahead. You're your own person. I just wanted to throw out there for the record that I had no intention of handing out torches and pitchforks.

I have this habit of typing things that are philosophical in my head, so I should clarify. The purpose behind that comment was to more philosophically ask: "Okay, so you really dislike her, but what's the point in just complaining and avoiding, what's your end game? You either DO something about it, or learn the risk factors and mitigate it."

(i.e. perhaps the better way of dealing with it in the long term might be to encourage her to roleplay openly with everyone knowing who she is, and then watch for the behaviors. If an open statement is made: We don't like the way you manipulate shit, and players make it clear to staff that they won't stay if she is allowed and if those behaviors persist, then staff will have to choose to ignore so many players' stances or adhere to them. VASpider would then, in theory, get with the program, behave, and life will go on)

I would like to state for the record that my 'quoted' comment above was not intended to in any way start any sort of actual mob-rule banning effort, nor was it intended to start anything, really.

Given the high levels of subjectivity and the behavior of some individuals in this hobby, I would also like to state, for the record, that I think that this thread is a bad idea, as like all threads, it will only devolve into Hog Pit levels of mob justice and crazytown bullshit.

I have nothing that I would like to contribute. The people I have issues with, I will deal with directly if I feel like bridging the gap. If I do not, I give them their room to RP in peace. I see nothing constructive about airing issues that will likely not resolve in any constructive manner by placing them before an audience of trolls and cliques.

@Cupcake I seriously just assume that everyone is, give or take, on every single game. With burner email addresses on wikidot accounts, I used to keep an eye out for people, but I just stopped sooner or later. This isn't a criticism in anyway, I'm just sayin' that at any given time I assume everyone I've ever MU'ed with crossed my path incognito every game I played.

@Cupcake Well, chances are that person is on every other game like everyone else is.

@ThatGuyThere Do you remember Secondary Skills? I liked those. oWoD had all kinds of secondary skills and super-type specific knowledge/lore skills to buy up, which I think was a better way to go than ACADEMICS, which makes you just as good at understanding ANCIENT ROME as you are at understanding THE HISTORY OF NEPAL.

The way it appears to me, NWoD wanted to streamline XP use so that there weren't so many skills to buy (which, newer RPGs really are minimizing the # of skills to buy in play. Rolemaster had HUNDREDS of skills. Newer RPGs are skills-lite).

@Derp said in Fate's Harvest BETA Live (Full Open Soon):

But can we maybe take Spider related anecdotes to a different thread so we can maybe focus on the game as a whole in this one, please and thank you? I'm sure if people really care they can follow it there.

Well spoken. Thank you.

The point that I'm trying to make is when you have a skills system that rolls up 'all crafts' into crafts, then a merit (such as PT) that makes it easier to have access to 8/9/rote in every single craft known to mankind is an exacerbation of the problem.

There is now a fairly cheap way to get 8/9/rote in all uses of a skill, and that is PT.

@surreality said in CofD and Professional Training:

@Ghost That's a problem with the overly broad skills in WoD, not a problem with PT.

Is what you're describing it any less ridiculous without PT? Nah, because their pool for Crafts is the same for all of those things with or without PT. Which is already oceans of dumb.

Right, but PT exacerbates that problem

@Auspice Fuck yeah, homie

@Meg Fair enough, no love lost. Especially if she's still behaving in ways that make people wanna avoid her. Current behavior is just where I set the stance.

I've had some mega fallout moments with a few people over the years and, after giving them a second chance (or vice versa) and talking things over, things turned out pretty well. So I like to always leave some kind of crack in the door, because if there's no one to RP with, then why bother?

Just my stance on things, but if anyone misbehaves, whatevs, boot to ass

Edit: In all fairness, she is one of maybe 4 reasons the FC Changeling sphere got wrecked so early on. Being there for that sucked.

@Cupcake said in Fate's Harvest BETA Live (Full Open Soon):

@Ghost said in Fate's Harvest BETA Live (Full Open Soon):

Personally I think it's sad that this person isn't being given the opportunity to attempt roleplay with updated behavior.

I'm not a friend of hers, nor do I role play with her, but all patterns aside, there are people in this hobby far more deserving of scarlet letters on the loose who don't suffer the same degree of scrutiny.

I, for one, refuse to partake in this witch hunt behavior.

Have you un-retired from mushing?

Because this comes off as proclaiming the higher moral ground in a race you have no horse in.

Stick to the topic and stop trying to bait.

I don't have to have a personal stake in a game to think its sad that someone is getting the hin treatment.

Now, if Spider is misbehaving? THE BOOT IN THE ASS. I just dislike that she gets all of this spewed hate while there are some definitely rapey/stalky types running free.

Bonus points for people who make Anglo-appearing Russians from east of Moscow and refer to themselves as Asian

Personally I think it's sad that this person isn't being given the opportunity to attempt roleplay with updated behavior.

I'm not a friend of hers, nor do I role play with her, but all patterns aside, there are people in this hobby far more deserving of scarlet letters on the loose who don't suffer the same degree of scrutiny.

I, for one, refuse to partake in this witch hunt behavior.

However, the 8/9/rote bonus from PT doesn't clarify that it should be reserved to simple tasks.

For example, if an artist character has PT: Artist to rank 5, they'll have 8/9/rote on all crafts checks.

Now, realistically, a well trained artist (using chef as an example) should be able to craft a better than normal ham and cheese sandwich, reasonably, with rote successes, but when it comes to complex, highly difficult, or experimental meals, the degree of difficulty and attention required comes up, and I don't feel that even famous chefs like Gordon Ramsay do highly difficult things so simply.

I have zero doubt that Gordon Ramsay could cook me up a super-nice, rote-grade version of macaroni and cheese with his eyes closed, but where PT is concerned, Gordon Ramsay (crafts5 w 8/9/rote) could approach the following as if they were as difficult as making macaroni and cheese:

• Making a katana
• Cooking a Michelin Star grade meal for the Queen of England
• a birthday cake made out of human skin
• Recreating the Mona Lisa with matching brush strokes
• Making a samurai grade suit of lamellar armor to go along with a Hanzo sword of his own design.

This is where I think PT is broken. IMO the benefits should all be restricted to uses WITHIN SAID PROFESSION and the rote usage should be restricted to dice rolls that are not considered extended dice rolls.

Be it NWoD or CofD, I've seen too many people apply benefits of PT to other used outside of their professional training. Staff should make this distinction and keep an eye on it.

In short: Being an expert pastry chef with 8/9/rote on crafts rolls should never be applied to forging Hattori Hanzo katana

Edit/Afterthought: It is my belief that the draw for PT isn't to have 8/9/rote in <skillname> rolls pertaining to profession, but to have 8/9/rote in all uses of that skill, which is overpowered and, IMO, gamebreaking.

These really are good points. MUers change emails so often, and plenty of burner emails are given out to games because no one wants their game stuff intermingling with their actual RL identities. This his how everyone on SerenityMU ended up getting a LinkedIn request from Mal @ SerenityMush.

There's an imaginary line for most MUers. My game stays on one side, and my RL stays on the other, so there's no reason to give an actual, useful email address to a game when your IP is marked every time you log in with a bit. IPs are used to block players, not email addresses.

There may be some useful contact/notification purposes for having emails, but the stance I sense from most players is I will decide when MU is important, and I don't want MU chasing me down when I'm not choosing to log in.

@surreality This is a discussion on our opinions and viewpoints on PT in CofD, and I've given them. I've stated reasoning outside of just the question on whether or not 8/9/rote should be limited to equipment/supernatural means, and it was versed as a philosophical question, leading into a few angles on my own interpretation.

WoD has a very rich history since 1st generation of systems, powers, and designs flaws (Secrets of the True Black Hand, for example) that were later interpreted as mistakes, which led to the creation of NWoD, and later CofD. A good number of things done away with seemed to be scrapped due to the original ideas simply being bad ideas (combo disciplines, etc). I personally believe that PT is one of these things that will go down as a mistake due to failed implementation, abuse, and unhinging the balance between mortals and supernaturals.

Disagree with me all you like, but I'm sure you're capable of doing so while remaining civil and without attacking people through their ideas. I simply request that you do so.

@surreality I don't appreciate the tone you're taking with me on a constructive thread, when I'm merely stating my viewpoint on a mechanic. I would appreciate it if you turned down the snide attitude a measure.

Having said that, if you feel strongly that the existence of the mechanic itself is proof positive that it's appropriate and not overpowered, you're welcome to your opinion on the matter. Clearly, I have a different viewpoint, and that's okay.

@surreality said in CofD and Professional Training:

Then explain how anyone can get it from using a shotgun.

The shotgun has a superhuman ability to spray metal pellets at speeds of over 1000fps. In that, the accuracy and damage output from a shotgun is far more deadly than any human could throw pellets for damage. The 'again' from the shotgun isn't because of the human, it's because of the spray/spread of the weapon.

So, if the shotgun allows the 'again' on rolls because of its freakish ability to spread damage across a pattern, this still lends towards the idea that humans simply aren't capable of generating their own 8/9again/rote degrees of skill/accuracy on their own.