Posts made by Glitch

@Sponge said:

Sounds like more use of hooking than I'm interested in. Seems like it would be best implemented in client. Am I missing something?

I agree that server-side repose is more useful. I assert that client-side is more useful than nothing because copy-paste is tedious and error prone.

Do you have an implementation of either?

If you want code, just ask for it. It might not show up, but it's better than asking if you're missing something when you obviously understand that a MU based solution is better and just don't want to code it.

MOD VOICE: Topic split here.

@VulgarKitten said:

my Windows phone

First, second and third problem right there. Maybe even fourth and fifth.

@Runescryer
MUXes listen on a single port per instance. So you could have a Modern Earth on 1001 and a Alt-History earth on 1002, but they'd be different games. Different grids, different code, etc. People would have to log in to each one separately as though they were separate games.

Yeah, I've run into this issue too. It's a problem with how the board handles the storage of csrf tokens and a hard refresh should clear it out. Still annoying, though.

@Loki
You're right on both counts, so more constructively, I feel like individual scripting by players should be a low priority. What I would be looking for in a new codebase is the following:

• JSON: I know you said it's just an implementation detail, but I think it needs to be an early and deeply embedded adoption
• Pluginable: Modules, plugins, leaves, whatever you want to call them. It should allow installation, activation and prioritization of plugins. This could take some of the burden of work off you if this is baked in from the beginning. It will also encourage the sharing of code (for boards/jobs/rollers/whatever). It might be cool if there was a "settings" page for each of these modules that allowed for custom settings (created by the plugin writer) that could be stored and made use of on load-out.
• Message/Command routing: It would take care of all the detail involved in routing commands through a:

{
  "cmd": "(command route naming)", 
  "opts": "(info passed from client and passed through to command)", 
  "req": "(originator, location, targets?, req chain for plugin bubbling)", 
  "res": "(response chain for plugin bubbling)"
}

• Socket Wrapper: I think it's necessary to support websockets, especially if you want to see better clients.
• Security: A big category, I know, but things like message/command authentication, sanitization for outgoing messages/commands, perhaps some sort of generic acl functionality that plugins can make use of.

I think those would be the minimum features necessary for a first release.

@bored said:

It kind of just makes you sound like a hipster douchebag infatuated with the newest thing.

Evennia, on the other hand... is specifically a project with the goal of recreating a MUSH/MUX like experience and feature set with a modern programming language and other bells and whistles. It already does many of the things we want it to do and is adding features constantly.

I assume you're going to tell me, in your analogy, that Evennia is not some hipster German kitchen knife, but is obviously better because it is, in fact, the newest Swedish hatchet that comes free with a stylish beard and fitted plaid?

Your hatred of Storium aside, I never said it was the answer and even specified what I thought were its shortcomings. What I did say, is that it handled a section of storytelling that is important to many in the MU community as evidenced by all the prolific scene logging that happens.

I also specifically said that, The reason people haven't abandoned MU'ing entirely for these other options is because neither roll20 nor Storium offer the style of gaming MU'ers are familiar with. I was even paraphrasing something you said, which makes it all the more troublesome when you choose to overlook, or fail to notice, it.

As I started clarifying further, I noticed I'm starting with "I never said" to another one of your quotes and it's going to start adding up to too many "I never said" and "I specifically said". So let me tl;dr it for you so there's not as much for you to quote and then fail to read:

MU'ing needs an overhaul. Evennia does not go far enough. There are good, if incomplete, ideas in things like Storium and roll20. I sure hope something nifty comes out. The end.

Some privacy setting stuff for your Win10 upgrade.

@bored You don't see how a web-based VTT and a free-form story "logger" and platform have anything to do with this? Seriously?

The reason people haven't abandoned MU'ing entirely for these other options is because neither roll20 nor Storium offer the style of gaming MU'ers are familiar with, as you say. But the building blocks are there. Storium is lacking in that their system is immutable and the real-time feel is a bit lost in the "post" nature of interaction. As for roll20, it has that real-time component, but little prominence is given to text-based RP and it doesn't do a good job at handling scenes as anything more than one long log.

However, there are people that use roll20 for text-only RP (they have even recognized this by adding a text-only search option for people looking for games). It's basic, really only offering /emit, but it allows people to fold it in with the visuals of a "scene" with the rolling and combat that can accompany any PrP. Storium puts scenes into terrific order and flow and does a good job tracking the components of what could easily constitute any MU scene.

If people want exactly what they have now, then no, there is nothing that will replace it. If there's something that eventually comes out and offers things like always-on connectivity, flexible enough code to build a game around any theme or setting and the mechanics to play it? I'd certainly move on at that point.

@Ide If I recall correctly, all commands were routed through string parsing (like standard MU fair). I'd like to pass something like (completely random example):

{
  user: "glitch",
  method: "roll",
  options: { explode: true, dice: 10 },
  target: 5
}

And have the back-end handle that because the nWoD plugin/module/whatever is installed and it knows what to do with that. I don't want to make an interpreter that'll catch that JSON object and turn it into "/roll/explode 10:target=5" for Evennia's back-end to parse out "roll" and send it to a roll command as a string, where it is interpreted as a string with results returned as a string just for die-hard telnet users.

If that's not the case now, this is what I recall of the last time I had poked at it.

@Derp
@Arkandel gave a number of potential upsides, but I think he's primarily right in that it provides options where there are none now. MU is a limited codebase that has reached, to my mind at least, its maximum potential. Also, a softcode implementation is a security headache and time sink that I just wouldn't care to deal with in order to satisfy the itch of a very small percentage of MU'ers who wanted to "code" on someone else's game. Most MU'ers just want to be able to RP and use the mechanisms that allow for an easier time of it.

@Loki Last time I looked at Evennia, it had a wrapper for its sockets so that it could use tcp or websockets. Is that something you've considered? I think the biggest problem with it at the time was that it still worked off of strings in the back-end code itself (Jasmine did too, yes?). I'd prefer arbitrary JSON objects, particularly if the back-end is node.js.

@Loki So I've given this a lot of thought too. I dug into the Evennia code a bit and also took a look at Jasmine a few times (just enough there to get a sense of things) and the conclusion I always come back to is that it is, mostly, "lipstick on a pig". With things like roll20 and storium out there, I feel like we should be moving beyond all the old MU codebases.

@Chime and @Arkandel both bring this up as well and none of us have actually done anything about it, but I think gutting the code back-end and leaving the familiar command-line telnet connections that MU'ers are used to is the wrong direction.

So I ask this with no hostility toward the idea, but without finding any pros myself, why shuffle the back-end only to leave the front-end experience the same?

Take a look at ghost. It's a new blogging platform that's pretty light-weight, blog-focused and very clean. It also has a number of themes and plugins, with more introduced fairly regularly.

@FiranSurvivor I don't know what you're building, but you could also just get a template and tweak it. Places like theme forest and wrapbootstrap have a bunch of pre-rendered templates.

@Apollonius said:

I guess there was Merril, if you like Tali.

Now those are fighting words. I was very much meh about Merril, but Tali was my jam, man.

I feel like I need to read these again, now.

@Derp No veil would require thematic and mechanical changes, and might not be compatible with Demon really, but it would indeed make it more of a Dresden/True Blood/etc type place. Those sorts of settings have wide appeal, even if it doesn't scratch your particular itch.

@Tempest Games with open sheets and a focus on outside enemies are common, if you're not limiting yourself to WoD games. They seem to manage just fine.

@Saulot @Cobaltasaurus I was always curious how a game without a veil and more openly encouraged/enforced cooperation between players might go. Good luck with your game.

@Anonymous The bboard software we use here isn't really concerned with the online MU'ing community, so it probably just didn't even occur to them. The only options I have regarding reputation is to turn it off completely or turn off just down votes.

@Derp Nope, no notification for me, either. Harmony and care bears it is!