Posts made by ixokai

@saosmash I do

I just don't think about personality early on in the process. Or if I do its not... coherent enough to put into words, and if I try, the chance of it being completely wrong is quite high.

This... veers into... how do you police it?

I seriously don't have the time to monitor all the RP on the game. (This has been a point of contention before, which I'm so not going to argue again)

How do you monitor and how do you respond to the 'deeply shy' person? I agree people that make deeply shy characters, who do not also OOCly be proactive in getting around that, are stabbing themselves in the foot and its frustrating for everyone near them.

But do you seriously take them aside and be all: Look...

I don't know what sort of games you play but I don't play ones that have deep app processes: I don't enjoy writing detailed backgrounds, personality fields, etc. I get a feel for my characters...flavor-- personality, interests, quirks-- by winging it mostly after approval.

How could you vet 'lone wolf' without having a much more involved app process then I'm personally comfortable with?

@kanye-qwest said in Staff and ethics:

@ixokai said in Staff and ethics:

I don't think she planned it.

But....they did plan it. They asked specifically to use the possession NPC. The RP does not choose you.

Its not quite so simple or black and white as that. At the time of asking to run the plot, I don't think, "oh I shall self-rape!" even entered her mind. It came up during RP that some mild sexytimes happened. I don't think it was planned that way, or that she was cognizant of her own reaction or what it would mean until the boyfriend flipped his shit out and didn't react like she thought he would-- stupidly thought, at that.

There's a lot of context here I can't fully get into.

This player's pattern of behavior wasn't one of being the regular creeper, it WAS of thoughtlessness and a lack of self-awareness.

@kanye-qwest said in Staff and ethics:

@ixokai Yeah I probably would have banned the "i raped myself" player, if their proposal was a bunch of innocuous shit.

@cupcake said in Staff and ethics:

@ixokai Not speaking for anyone else, but I as a player would want to avoid someone who was interested in playing that kind of trope on a game I participate on. That's creepy as fuck, and distinctly unfunny to those of us who have suffered sexual assault.

I totally understand both of these POV's, but: I do think the player got carried away and didn't think things through or see it as I-rape-myself, quite, until the moment, when she was just reacting as her character. I don't think she planned it.

That said, we wanted to take the boyfriend's wishes into account. He didn't want it swept under the rug and retconned; he felt both hurt, and shocked, and wanted to be able to say like: Yo. I'm breaking up with you for cause and to not invalidate the RP he had done around the false accusation.

A ban would have just nulled the situation.

As for other players, if this was something we felt at all was a sort of pattern we woulda banned her anyways. She wasn't a new player, had been with us since the beginning, and didn't have a pattern of this type of thing. But I seriously think it was an not-thinking thing. She didn't really think, "hey you realize you just accused someone of rape for actions you did without their consent?" until we bluntly pointed it out to her.

Aaaaaaand went and made the rape rule explicit Which we should have done to begin with.

@surreality Yeah, believe me, we shoulda been on top of this. We completely know. We messed up. The particulars of the screw up just... whoa, shocked us. And yeah we made new rules.

@gangofdolls said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

I think half the battle is getting people to recognize that it is time to go. Alot of people hang on too long out of some mix of stubborn refusal to tap out, because they think they're having fun, or because they're staying for their friends (who are often also just staying for them right back).

I dislike this attitude.

Its dismissive: what if they aren't thinking they are having fun, but ARE having fun, despite drama (especially drama from staff: I've been on so many games where my driving goal was to just ignore staff and I had a lot of fun with that limitation). What if staying for their friends is IMPORTANT to them?

Are they wrong? Don't they get to make the value-judgement of when to throw in the towel and when its still valid for them?

Don't get me wrong, crazy staff are crazy. I'm not a fan. But if me and my friends are having fun, my position has been: I weigh my fun vs the stupid.

Fun wins? I keep playing.

There's no absolute of, hey. It's time to go.

@mietze said in Staff and ethics:

Holy shit, someone tricking others oocly into participating in rape play is pretty yuck! I hope the boyfriend or whoever was oocly aware/fine with that path! If not, that would rise to the level of a bannable offense (banning the possessed person), at least for me.

They were absolutely not okay with that path. Not even a LITTLE bit. The plot runner wanted to reset and pretend none of it happened, the boyfriend was like: ... No. There are Consequences here, you reaped what you sow. And we chose to respect that.

He didn't want a ban, but didn't want to just handwave away the situation, and instead to accept it ICly. We crafted our response based upon his wishes.

Maybe I’ve just encountered too many Surpise! Rape and Rescue! So Dark and Gritty! “plots” on WoD and fantasy games.

I... have seen those, but just didn't expect it in a comic game.

@flahgenstow said in Staff and ethics:

@ixokai

They seriously raped themselves??

It be your own people

Yes. Seriously. They created the situation entirely, without anyone elses consent (and we're a consent based game), or fore-knowledge, where they could claim assault... because of the situation they, themselves, made.

To say we were all collectively, on staff: WTF?!

Is an understatement.

Like. On the making a rule because of you thing?

Someone on M1963 put in a request to run a plot with a mutant that possesses people. They described types of things they would do. All seemed good.

They proceeded to have their PC possessed, have mild sexytimes with their boyfriend, and then be unpossessed, and claim, SEXUAL ASSAULT. Boyfriend did not have any reason to be even vaguely aware girlfriend was possessed during mild sexytimes.

We're all: -.-

Seriously? We needed the 'dont rape yourself' rule? Sigh. Fine. Now look we have a rule.

Now, all that said, on topic: I am for announcing major disciplinary actions. Minor ones, ones that don't need banning, I'm for announcing a change in rules or clarification in rules about an issue. But not shaming a player we've determined we're allowing to stay.

If what a player did is not enough to ban, then its important to protect that player and while you might privately share that 'a warning has been given', etc, with those affected, you should not create some stigma around the offender.

Personally, the more there is discrimination in a setting, the more important it is to set a standard for OOC behavior. If you're a bigot IC, you need to be careful to leave this IC. I know people have a tendency to, for example, talk semi-ICly while on channels or in the OOC Lounge, but these OOC areas need to have a properly respectful OOC tone. Leave IC, IC.

Here's m1963's conduct policy:

Staff here at Marvel: 1963+ have a very simple philosophy when it comes to the conduct of our players; we expect our players to conduct themselves as adults and treat others with respect.

As the IC subject-matter of this game covers a number of things that are sensitive and controversial, including but not limited to racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, and so on, it's very important that we maintain a respectful OOC tone on these and other subjects. We aren't trying to create an environment that stifles discussion, but we also aren't a venue where OOC social politics is welcomed. This is a game; we're here to play it, and it's important to keep OOC things -- especially about these sensitive issues -- on a level that makes everyone comfortable.

Actually admitting and apologizing goes a long way, to me, to keep Franken not on my shit-list.

"She's a liar" makes me almost more angry then anything else in these situations.

Now, for those people wanting proof... how the heck is someone supposed to prove that she got hit on by a 30yo man when she was 14, 40 years ago?

How does someone prove that she got drugged and raped while unconscious a decade ago?

Any 'evidence' is long gone... and because our culture is such as it is, sooo many women don't feel safe reporting so the evidence could be gathered.

@surreality said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

Re: professionalism, it depends on what someone means by it, IMO.

To some, this means civility.

To a smaller some, this means the customer service mentality of 'the customer is always right' + 'I am free to be abusive to a customer service representative and they have to sit there smiling through it'.

I'm down with casual (read: not super formal/detached/distant) conversation in which everyone recognizes that everyone in said conversation is a person worthy of respect and the benefit of the doubt regardless of their position or role on the game. I am not down with the 'free to be abusive to' interpretation, but that also goes in all directions, as that's not acceptable from player -> staffer, staffer -> player, staffer -> staffer, or player -> player, so far as I'm concerned.

To me, professionalism is:

1. Civility
2. Timely response to issues
3. Ethical behavior
4. An awareness of our own limitations (like, COI)
5. Treating the commitment as a serious thing.

I don't buy into the whole 'the customer is always right, you have to take abuse everywhere' part of it that some retail type professionals have to deal with.

Staff are people and deserve to be treated respectfully, same as any player, and anyone being abusive towards them should be booted from the game, same as anyone being abusive towards someone else.

BUT. Staff should not feel free to snark, to bitch, to belittle, to answer jobs of their own or their close rp partners, to just ignore jobs until they turn red and then send off an idle comment that just resets the timing of a real response, should not take an attitude of speaking down to players, ... and so on.

@kanye-qwest said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

? But you did equate "professional" with "paid".

@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.

"in a paid gig" was the key statement. On one side, "paid gig". On the other side, "staff of a game". In the middle, "professional", which I expect of both.

ETA: I admit the wording was clumsy on my part.

@kanye-qwest said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

@ixokai said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

@gingerlily said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'

I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.

because they are not paid professionals? I mean it's fine to have expectations, but...

I, in no way, equate "professional" with "paid".

I don't honestly even understand that POV: when I've seen it used, and I'm not saying you use it, its been more often then not used as an excuse for bad behavior. Oh, we're just volunteers.

I volunteer IRL some, and at the charity I volunteer for, professional behavior is absolutely expected. If someone does not, they are asked not to return.

In a game context, I really do expect staff to hold themselves to a professional standard. Maybe I'm unreasonable in doing so, I guess.

But, except for places/staff which are nuts, I find most do actually meet that standard. Or at least try to.

@gingerlily said in Reasons why you quit a game...:

I like that one. In general I am a bit exhausted when people create these parallels between those staffing a game and those doing paid work. This was more 'here is an easy thing from our professional lives that we can also use in games'

I don't see why I should expect less of staff of a game then I expect of professionals in a paid gig.

I expect volunteers at the local food pantry to behave professionally, too.

Not being paid isn't an excuse to not be professional, IMHO.

I have ... conflicted feelings about 'writing out our guidelines'.

On the one hand, establishing what is right and good behavior is... right and good.

On the other, going heavy into writing rules tends to lead to an atmosphere where the rules as written are what matters, and not the effect.

I've also found that my personal ethics, the standards I hold myself to, are not per se what I would hold others to.

I generally quit games for two reasons.

Either A) RL hits me in the face, or B) I'm bored and nothing happens.

Sure, I've seen my share of drama, but its rare that issues are what makes me quit a game.

ETA:

I do remember quitting the Unwanted/Unwelcome/Unsomething, a WOD mush I actually coded for, because I played my one alt with two characters. Turns out, those were alts of one player. I didn't know it.

Staff got super hard on me for alt-conflict/COI issues because I was supposed to be the one responsible for making this situation not happen. Note: nothing actually every happened where I like, took info from one alt to the other, or anything like that.

But I still had no idea they were the same alts. But it was on ME, not THEM, that staff put the alt-conflict burden on.

I was all wtf: fu. Good bye.

@bored @Pondscum
I have no words for the wtf.

I don't know if @wahoo was even involved in anything about this, but it doesn't matter. This level of wtf is like.

Either:

A) What @Pondscum says happened. You allowed it. You are bad.
B) What @Pondscum says didn't happen. She is lying, she's bad.

... I have heard enough about Firan that I choose A.

My advice is then, for @wahoo, is... apologize wide-spread, broad-dispersal, and ... not be proud of dark moments of your past.

Firan is cancer.

I have no idea what anyone is talking about. That said, @bored is coming off seriously but strangely unspecifically clinging to whatever did or did not happen.

I mean like, I totally agree that you should minimize and guard against re-traumatizing the victim.

But "start an investigation against my will" being an issue? Its like, okay, staff suspects there's someone toxic on the game, so they should just wait until such a time that someone wants to come up with an official complaint?

I thought the whole consensus we had before on topics about harassment, etc, was that staff should be MORE proactive with rooting out and kicking these abusers off the game?

@greenflashlight said in Reporting Roadblocks: Denial, Fear, Shame, Guilt, Embarrassment, etc.:

I guess the next definition is my goal in dealing with victims. I perceive harassment mostly as a violation of personal sovereignty; as a theft of personal boundaries. My goal is to heal that breach by allowing boundaries to be reestablished under the victim's control. If I have to choose between letting a predator go and violating the trust of an already damaged victim, I'll let the predator go every time, because the idea of hurting the victim more in order to buy safety for the next person is abhorrent to me. I don't believe in buying a third party's safety with a victim's pain. In my personal hierarchy of sins, that kind of betrayal is in the top three. It offends me on the deepest level.

This is so completely abhorrent to me I barely have words. This is how you get not one victim but dozens.