Posts made by Thenomain

How to know when I have a day off: I hyper-post as if I had to make up for lost time.

(This is no longer true; I hyper-post because "that makes me think of", which of course everything does. I'm like Ark, except with less free time during the day, the lucky bastard.)

@Miss-Demeanor said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

Fate, d20, etc. just aren't as widely known yet.

Fate was tried but a lot of people pushed back against the core Aspects system which can allow far too much latitude.

d20 was the other system that it was pretty much guaranteed that Wora people knew, but there were two popular D&D games. All others that were tried seemed to fail.

Thanks to Evennia, the systems that Mud-likes invent are starting to gain popularity here, too. All I'd need to do to make a 7th Sea game approachable is to say that the core "Roll and Keep" system used by Arx is pretty much stolen from there. Add pirates. Mix.

... I keep dying.

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

@Thenomain
I'm not really disagreeing with you. I said up-top that this stuff is very well likely in keeping with MSB. I'm just stating that it bugs me when it happens, and it happens frequently, and it is a carry-over from WORA culture

And I'm saying that it's a natural outcome of a forum that doesn't have strict rules about who can and can't post where. Here has the same two rules that the last version of Wora had. 1) No personal information. 2) Attack the idea not the person.

Soapbox has flipped the expectation of Rule #2 where on Wora this was only on the Constructive forum while here it's only not on the Hog Pit forum. Even on Wora, Rule #2 was mainly expected to cover the Advertising thread, but it wasn't an actual rule until Soapbox.

ETA: Also, I'll admit, the 4chan wanktards spamming ad threads with bizarre and trolling questions has set me off about this. But it's a long-standing issue with me.

Well yeah, but fuck those guys. There is a huge difference between a troll and someone who has an honest dissenting opinion (edit: or an honest dissenting question), and part of what makes trolls so effective is that it's almost impossible to tell that difference.

@Three-Eyed-Crow

Name me a thread that doesn't get derailed or drift by offhanded remarks that become even more offhanded. "That reminds me" is pretty normal.

There's also a long-standing philosophy from far back in Wora days that staff who come to defend their game are doomed (often a self-fulfilling prophecy) while those who explain their game seem to be praised, or at least understood. I wouldn't be disappointed if only people who started an advertising thread were allowed to post in it, then we'd no more have the people who are excited about a game than those who have questions about it.

@Roz said in Game of Bones:

@Thenomain said in Game of Bones:

@Roz said in Game of Bones:

Guys, did you hear that Serenity MUSH had a video ad?

Er...yes?

You were the third one to mention it.

What, I'm supposed to pay attention to you people now?!

So unfair.

@Roz said in Game of Bones:

Guys, did you hear that Serenity MUSH had a video ad?

Er...yes?

@faraday said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

@Derp said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

Nobody is preventing people from other games posting? If it'still heavily WoD, that's just because the active people play WoD games. Feel free to start discussions about other active games?

Nobody prevents it, no. But it's sure not fun to do so when so many discussions turn into a holy war about the only 'right' way to do something

And yet, we just confronted someone on the constructive and advertising forums when they were doing this. I'm not going to say that Wora's history doesn't color people's attitudes about Soapbox, but these discussions about the "right" way are more discussions now. (Often moot or academic discussions about how things should go without getting the practice in. Me, I'd rather have discussions about how people are doing things.)

<edit, because this hit while I was typing>

@HelloProject said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

@Thenomain I mean more, I have all the reason in the world to shit on MSB, due to my general hatred of WORA

This is a faulty comparison. The chain of Wora->Swofa->Wora was direct in intent. Soapbox was not created as an extension of nor by anyone who ran Wora, is run differently, with different goals and expectations. Apples and oranges.

@HelloProject said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

I say this as someone who literally hated WORA with a goddamned passion, so I like to think I lack bias.

I...hope that was tongue-in-cheek humor, there. You're easily as biased as I am.

The Serenity Mush had a video ad. I still think the concept is silly, but the expectations of other social groups that you're trying to attract may also seem silly but you do it anyway because advertising.

Dorothy Mengering.

You know, David Letterman's mom.

It was always delightful to see her on the show, the personality of a proud mother.

@Carex said in Fear and Loathing:

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying there are simpler, easier, ways to accomplish the same goals.

I read all your replies in this thread and couldn't find this solution, so I'm asking for a citation, please.

@Catsmeow

I was going with "until one of you is dead" or "until the restraining order sticks". I only advocate one of them. (Hint: It's the latter.)

@Arkandel said in Comic book diversity:

@Thenomain I just completely fail to see the point. Either people would miss it, so why put it there in the first place, or they'd see it in which case he'd get fired.

Wtf?

My point is that there was a near-zero chance that people wouldn't find it. And as for him getting fired, sometimes you do things based on your belief that doesn't resonate with the common social because you think they're right, and "doing the right thing" is something that we strive for, right?

Obviously he was uncertain if it was the right thing to do, then it wasn't the right thing to do.

Hell, it's not like messages weren't "hidden" in comic books before.

Amirite?

@Arkandel

I'm surprised he thought he could get away with hiding essentially hate speech in front of a bunch of nerds.

@Arkandel said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

Now you remind me of @HelloRaptor (I hope the fucker gets back here) who left because we had gotten too soft.

HR didn't leave because we got too soft, he left because he didn't want to change his tone because someone would complain about him being a meanie poopyhead. I mean, sure I love Lewis CK, but not everyone does.

@Arkandel said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

You know how there are counter-games? Games basically made by disgruntled players of whatever MU* who decide to do the-same-thing-only-better and almost invariable create the same-thing-only-much-worse? The same principle applies to forum philosophies too - by trying to 'free' the conversation, but framing it at the same time, what they're doing is limiting it.

For those who don't know this bit of history, there were two (two!) forums that were meant to be the anti-Wora, where only constructiveness and support were allowed. The people who ran them were so tense about anything else happening that they folded quickly.

What I see here that I never saw on Wora was that people are more willing here to say, "Hey, adult more please." I've seen it happen on more games, too.

What's interesting about the history of Wora is that people volunteered to go there, to talk there, to be there, to create Wora. Whether or not it helped, it existed and has left an indelible mark on our history.

I suspect that mark says "D-, See me after class."

@surreality said in MSB: The meta-discussion:

'Jaded Gamer'

THANK YOU. His name should be on a plaque somewhere, even if the subtext says, "Yeah, sorry about all this."

edit: I just found this quote on Facebook, of all places:

CATO’S partizans may call me furious; I regard it not. There are men, too, who have not virtue enough to be angry and that crime perhaps is Cato’s. He who dares not offend cannot be honest.

— Thomas Paine, The Forester's Letters Number 3 (April 22, 1776).

@surreality

You are also comparing now to a history of almost twenty years. WORA--the first Wora, the genssis--was originally started for two purposes. One: In order to out the shitty behavior of staff of WoD games, specifically around the Ashes to Ashes/Start Your Engines era. We had a lot of Psycho Hose-Beasts (PHBs) running games as personal fiefdoms who would gladly screw around with those who didn't fit their own personality or upset their extended clique. Young Hitler (sorry, little Hitler baby sir, I forget your handle) had friends and they spread the posts. Essentially, Wora, at the outset, was a blog.

The second reason WORA was created was to drive those people insane, to make fun of them, and in some way to give them a taste of their own medicine. Wora was created to treat shitty people shittily. When Wora became more of a message board, it had only one rule: Sink or swim, it was up to you. Later it added a second: No personal information. (You may even be able to thank @VASpider for that one.) That was it.

When I stepped into Wora, at the tail end of the original message boards and before its first major change, it wasn't much different than your typical Usenet news forums, equal parts Insane Clown Posse and casual conversation. Few people did what Ark and I do, sit around for lengthy periods of time hashing out a post. I went back to see some things I'd posted on one of the incarnations thinking that I had this lengthy discussion when it was me saying something, someone else disagreeing, me disagreeing with them, and the rest of the people reading ignoring it and moving on.

In total I think that part of the discussion was maybe fifty words. Glasses can be tinted with rose or brown crud. Hindsight can be nearsighted as well as 20/20.

Until Soapbox, Wora was still filled with people who shit-posted for fun. I doubt any of them were terribly serious about it (though a few were). It might have been called trolling, except that Wora's seen precious few actual trolls; everyone else was either too serious for their own good or giggled at themselves then forgot about it until later.

What Wora was, though, was a reflection of our WoD-centric corner of the hobby. Even as late as 2010, if you didn't see slut-shaming a-plenty on WoD games, then I envy your sheltered online life. I was just as pissed off at VASpider and I can't remember who all mocking people by spamming conversations with talk about being served drinks by cabana boys and the deliciousness of pie, because they were not much different than the people they hated for spamming discussions with more boyish shit-stirring. I don't think the ability to distract and derail a conversation is something to be proud of.

(I do, however, think there are exceptions that prove the rule, such as punching Nazis. It's always okay to punch a Nazi.)

--

Someone whose opinion I respect says that Soapbox has gotten boring, and that's the downside of it; being afraid to offend is not conductive to discussion. Sometimes discussions will get heated, and that has to be okay; even frustration or open criticism needs its safe space.

All of that said, I am elated that it's largely changed. I'm seeing different kinds of online games discussed and advertised. A lot of what I'm seeing (and a lot of what I'm saying!) can be too analytical--get your hands dirty, people, and make games and play games and rar!--but a lot of people who have been too afraid to say anything are saying things for the first time in ever. That's awesome.

@WTFE

You forgot about cabana boys and pie.

It is my pleasure to remind you.

@Monogram said in Mass Effect: Andromeda: The Thread:

Did anyone else notice how the omni-tools actually look decent after the patch instead of glitchy-looking mess they were before?

No. They're still glitchy-looking, but the design carries through better. Why they thought the need to wipe the slate clean on the design instead of tweak it is beyond me. Then again, the alien interface on Habitat 7, in the prologue, never appears anywhere else in the entire game, so I'm not expecting fine-tuned consistency this time around.

@Misadventure

If we have to give roster characters (et al.) a different terminology to differentiate them from the "purity" of PCs, then I will find constructive ways to say how stupid that is, starting with putting "purity" in scare-quotes.

I still cannot fathom the term of "NPC" being used to describe a played character. It's happened before, and it's still wrong; even if you have limitations on what you can do with a character, it's still a PC. Maybe if needs a different term, but the "N" isn't there for show.

If gaining one advantage comes with a responsibility, even if that is "you cannot take a position of power", then so be it. This isn't hard to work out what it means, but you could always ask staff. Staff could give some examples to help, and should be understanding when approaching people who they feel are skirting the edge.