MU Soapbox

    • Register
    • Login
    • Search
    • Categories
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Muxify
    • Mustard
    1. Home
    2. WTFE
    3. Posts
    • Profile
    • Following 3
    • Followers 3
    • Topics 3
    • Posts 1138
    • Best 415
    • Controversial 9
    • Groups 3

    Posts made by WTFE

    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      @Kanye-Qwest said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      I don't think there's anything wrong with the statement "Developing with Evennia requires you to know/learn Python".

      There is definitely something VERY wrong with that statement: it's not true.

      You must learn Python. You must learn the Python ecosystem with its myriad of tools to rein in its chaos. (Virtual environments, PIP, etc.) You have to set up a database IIRC. (I may be misremembering here; it's been ages since I looked at Evennia.) And now, apparently, you have to know Git (or Mercurial because, you know, Python).

      I am by no means a defender of MUSHcode. "A fucking horror" is not a term of endearment. But even despite the fucking horror, MUSHes are far friendlier "out of the box" experiences than massively over-engineered systems like Evennia.

      (I should probably put "scare quotes" around the "engineered" portion because human/machine interface is part of proper engineering.)

      Now, again, if the target market is professional programmers who want a professional (where "professional" is defined as "senselessly complicated for no good reason: cf. enterprise") development environment for their pretendy-fun-time-text-game hobby, then Evennia probably hits close to a sweet spot.

      If, however, the market is broader and includes hobbyists it has, IMO, fallen far short of what's needed to appeal there.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      @faraday said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      @WTFE said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      In the end I may finally implement the program's final version in a compiled language, but nothing beats a hosted interpreted language (or a language whose compile/link/load cycle is so fast it emulates one) for raw exploration of concept space.

      I completely agree with you that this is MUSHcode's strength. And if that's your primary goal in your game and you're willing to learn MUSHcode to do so, then clearly the first-gen MUSH servers are for you.

      Except you missed the part where I said that MUSHcode is a fucking horror of a language.

      My issue with Evennia is that it is (correctly) predicated on the observable fact that MUSH servers are dying-to-dead technology barely being propped up by increasing cruft at all levels. (Some of the work people are putting into MUSH servers is incredibly creative, but it's gilding a turd in the end.) But Evennia is the other kind of turd: the overengineered mess. It solves, IMO, almost, but not quite, exactly the wrong problems and in the process of doing so removes one of the few virtues that MUSH servers have.

      And it didn't need to.

      For example, there are other embeddable languages out there that you can incorporate into a custom server that will bring you up out of the stone age. Off the top of my head I can cite Lua and Tcl as possible contenders (with Lua going more up the list because it's quite a bit more modern and popular a language). The choice of Python + Django + MySQL + <insert long list technologies here> with the full-blown methodology of semi-professional software development expectations is actively offputting for hobbyist-oriented pretendy fun-time games, IMO.

      IMO an ideal MU* server replacement would:

      1. Not be telnet based. Period. Supporting telnet as a deprecated legacy, sure, but the telnet ship has sailed. And foundered on shoals in the middle of the fucking Pacific. And then sunk to the bottom. All the telnet extensions that MUSHes and their clients have fitfully tried to incorporate over the years are more turd-gilding. A MU* server replacement should be where most people reside on the Innarwebtubes these days: the web (or mobile apps if you must).
      2. Be a trivial installation. IDEALLY it should be a single-executable installation. "Copy this file into your PATH" or even better "run ./my_funky_server --install and stand back". (Don't believe this is possible? Take a gander at the Fossil SCM: full-fledged DSCM, web server, scriptable wiki, document server and quite a bit more ... and all in a single executable that is about 9MB on my system right now. This includes the baked-in SQL database…)
      3. Support both in-game coding and out-of-game coding. There are some who want the shell+text-editor+RCS+… infrastructure and there are some who want the in-game immediacy. Why not support both? Hell, why not let people decide which tasks they want to perform where? Maybe game systems at one site are done in external modules while in-game gewgaws are coded inline. Perhaps even … <gasp!> let people move things from one domain to another (provided they have the privs, natch!). Let them tinker with things online, then export the tinkered items into the formal development environment for all the crunchy VCS, modularity, and other goodness.
      4. As a furtherance of the previous, why not support multiple languages? Python for the plug-ins, say, while Lua is used in-game. Or any other pairing (or more!) of languages. Hell, publish a socket/RESTful interface specification and let anybody plug in any language that can talk sockets and/or HTTP (or WebSockets if you want to be hipster). Out of the box you support a small, carefully selected set of languages, but keep it wide open for extension.

      But as @Griatch pointed out, the workflow for Ares/Evennia is nowhere near as onerous as the C example you cited. I logged in yesterday and someone reported a bug in the mail system. I fired up my SSH client, edited one file, typed reload and voila - the bug was fixed in about 2 minutes.

      Now factor in debugging to find the problem. It's a lot easier to debug a system that gives you its guts at point of usage... (I go back to my use of Forth in embedded systems when exploring hardware, for example, or prototyping applications. Or often actually delivering them.)

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      @faraday said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      @Thenomain I'm curious how you define "immediate feedback tools". Is changing code in a text editor in the server shell and typing @reload in the game not immediate?

      I grant that neither Evennia nor Ares can compete with the old MU servers in allowing any old player to fiddle with the code. But for actual game devs, I don't quite see the distinction that you seem to be alluding to.

      Every step between "typing code" and "seeing the results of the typed code" is a barrier. This is why, for example, I will always prefer programming embedded systems in Forth over C (or, better, Modula-2). Here's my programming work cycle in Forth:

      1. Come up with a crazy idea.
      2. Type in the code for that crazy idea.
      3. Run the code and watch it crash and burn.
      4. Repeat until this doesn't crash and burn.

      Here's my programming work cycle in C (or Modula-2):

      1. Come up with a crazy idea.
      2. Type in the code for that crazy idea.
      3. Compile that code (and correct the inevitable whining from the compiler over trivial shit).
      4. Link that code.
      5. Flash that code onto the MCU.
      6. Fire up the debugger.
      7. Run the code and watch it crash and burn.
      8. Repeat until this doesn't crash and burn.

      (I'm being a bit facetious with the descriptions, but the general process is sound.)

      What this means is that from the point of conception to the point of inception there is a very little gap (typing the code) when I program in Forth whereas when I use a language like C (or Modula-2) there's a quite larger gap. The immediacy of the Forth approach gets me to functioning and tested code far more quickly by keeping my thoughts on the problem domain (instead of the plumbing) for longer.

      In the end I may finally implement the program's final version in a compiled language, but nothing beats a hosted interpreted language (or a language whose compile/link/load cycle is so fast it emulates one) for raw exploration of concept space.

      This is MUSHcode's single strength.

      As I've gone on at length in other places (including several variants of WORA), MUSHcode is a fucking blight of a programming language. It not only fosters bad programming habits, it demands them. It actively resists any attempt to do the right thing.

      Yet, I would far rather try setting up a MUSH server--despite hating the technology it's based on!--over setting up a game on Evennia. Why? Because the barrier between conceiving of something and seeing it work is far, far, far smaller.

      Firing up a text editor, editing code there, then switching to your game and typing @reload isn't as onerous a task as the horrible, horrible, horrible steps I take to get my C code working on an MCU, but it's a far cry from "the point of entry is the point of output" that fosters the best exploratory work. You're still switching out of your concept space and worrying about the plumbing. When you factor into that the API I linked to earlier with its myriad of StateManagerFactoryManagerStateManager types and other crud from shitty OOP methodology you have something that divorces you so far from the actual game design that it's actually kind of comical to see.

      (And that's not even mentioning the horror that is its installation procedure. Or its obnoxious resource requirements. Or ...)

      The Evennia project looks like a very well-constructed project that ... solves exactly the wrong problem, IMO. I wish it well, but I don't really expect it to do well in the long term.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Random links

      No troubles. I enjoy spreading that link around.

      Here's another: Feeling lost?

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Random links

      'Tis once again the season.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      @Griatch said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      It is the first time I hear that much vitriol against the install process so it's worth to consider.

      This is because the typical reaction of people when faced with (to them) crap software is to not bother with it. You're not going to get feedback from the people who tried and gave up. It takes a special breed of asshole to tell you at length why he gave up on your "crap" software.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      @Griatch said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      I won't elaborate on it. I'll let the guy who coined the phrase do it for me.

      The way I interpret that is he doesn't think objects should make the work of functions.

      Whereas it's actually a rather eloquent rant against the noun-centric thinking that has infected programming to the point that it is considered the norm.

      https://github.com/evennia/evennia/wiki/evennia

      Go there. Count the noun objects. Count the managers, factories, models, etc. Some of that kind of stuff is useful and necessary, but what I see in that API reference is a shopping list of design patterns. Of nouns and only nouns.

      Professional developers steeped in (the utterly broken and failed) modern OOP software methodology will not find this a problem.

      HOBBYISTS will.

      That is a ludicrous number of noun objects there.

      Which is not very relevant for Python that has no problem to support functional programming …

      BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

      Well, item #1: the Evennia installation process is terrible.

      I'm sorry to hear you had issues with the install process. Which OS did you install on?

      Linux.

      There is a briefer point-by-point summary up top but the main install text is indeed pretty lengthy. It's possible we can cut down on that; the text is explaining how to set up things also for those without any previous Python environment.

      Look to Textadept for how to do this right. Textadept is a code editor built on Lua, GTK, etc. Its build process downloads all the stuff it needs and builds a local copy, thus guaranteeing that the correct (compatible) version is installed and ready to rock. (The documentation for building Textadept is atrocious -- it's by no means a perfect package! -- but the bit about bringing in its own prerequisites and building them in a local copy is dead perfect.)

      Assuming you start with a sane Python dev environment, installing consists of activating a python virtualenv (a standard practice for Python programs), cloning the evennia repo and then running pip install -e evennia.

      If it's a "standard practice" WHY THE FUCKING FUCK IS IT NOT AUTOMATED!? Again you're acting as if your users are professional Python developers. If this is, in fact, your target audience, feel free to ignore my critique. But holy fucking shit, if this is your answer to fucking HOBBYISTS you really, really, really, really, FUCKING REALLY need to take a semester or ten of human/machine interaction courses!

      Evennia does not allow unprivileged players access to programming tools out of the box, this is true (see also Evennia for MUSHers for some more elaboration on this). I can see the value of this argument if you want your players to explore coding as part of your game design.

      Fuck the game design, the question is how do you get people from being players to being people who build games with your framework?

      I'm pretty sure every one of the semi-legendary MUSHcode softcoders out there started off just playing around with softcode on MUSHes, making dumb little functions and commands like my random ANSI example above. This is stuff that has no material impact on the game, but is a) fun to do, b) engages users as they find ways to write things that are convenient for them in your game, and c) acts as a gateway to more serious development.

      I'm not sure it's all that relevant for you downloading Evennia though? After all, you have all the exploratory tools available at your fingertips.

      I'm looking at a far wider picture than you're looking at. You persist in looking at "only professional Python developers" in effect. I'm looking at "how do you make people who aren't professional Python developers interested in using your product?"

      (Hint: if it's "read this document and follow the 18,000 lines of instructions in it to run your very own server, that's a non-starter.)

      I cannot really relate to this notion (anymore) …

      And it is abundantly clear that this is the case.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      @Griatch said in What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.:

      An interesting observation. I've not heard the term "Kingdom of nouns design" before, would you mind elaborating what you refer to by that?

      I won't elaborate on it. I'll let the guy who coined the phrase do it for me.

      As for "explorability", I guess this comes down to what one is used to. Most previous Python users that interact with us seem to report that they find Evennia pretty easy to get to grips with, many being productive within a day of finding it and asking some basic questions. But it varies greatly and there is no denying that starting to use any new library will always be a hurdle. We can only do our best to make it easier. So if you have any ideas for how to make Evennia more "explorable" I'd be genuinely happy to hear them!

      Well, item #1: the Evennia installation process is terrible. I mean utterly God-awful. When I finally got something that worked, I was never actually quite certain if I'd done it right or if I'd merely stumbled accidentally over a configuration that would work right up to the point it stops. Work on your installation process and please, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, MOTHERFUCKING PLEASE cut down on the number of "install this, then install this, then install this, then configure this, then do this, then do that" steps. An ideal setup process should involve one step: ./setup (or equivalent). You're not making enterprisey software here. Enterprise management are idiots and will tolerate things like Entrust's fifteen-stage (with three reboots!) installation process. Hobbyists ... not so much.

      Item #2: There's very little that can be done in the environment itself. Yet doing things in the environment itself is the very essence of explorability. Everything in Evennia is done out of band. Compare and contrast with MUSHes (terrible as they are!) where any user can go in and start tinkering around with MUSHcode like this:

      &FUN_ANSIFY me=foreach(me/fun_randansi,%0)
      &FUN_RANDANSI me=ansi(+[randword([colors()])],%0)
      &CMD_ANSIFY_CHAT me=$.ca *=*:@chat %0=[ufun(me/fun_ansify,%1)]
      &CMD_ANSIFY_PAGE me=$.pa *=*:page %0=[ufun(me/fun_ansify,%1)]
      &CMD_ANSIFY_TALK me=$.a *:say [ufun(me/fun_ansify,%0)]
      

      I mean seriously, this is an incredibly crappy programming language ... but it's a programming language available to the end-user at point of usage. This fosters explorability.

      In my youth BASIC was the gateway drug that led to an explosion of people learning to program. BASIC is a shit language, just like MUSHcode, but it was better than any of the alternatives available at the time because it was a shit language that was there in front of you. You typed at it and it gave you its (sometimes insane) response. It was BASIC and this explorability that led to where I am now almost casually doing R&D work in embedded systems. If I'd grown up in the Dark Ages of Exploration (the '90s and '00s) I'd never have gotten to where I am now.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      Honestly, I don't like any of the code bases out there. I'd never consider even trying to run a game on a MUSH base or Evennia. Of the code bases I've seen thus far the one I dislike least is MUCK, but it's tainted by association with ... less than savoury segments of society. (Tainted in that if you open a MUCK that set of segments will assume its for them and move in, driving off anybody else.)

      Logtalk is an object layer construction kit built on top of Prolog.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: What is out there? Hard and soft codebases of choice.

      Evennia is an impressive work indeed, but I find it kind of overengineered. Very much "kingdom of nouns" design.

      It also lacks something that's key in hobbyist adoption: easy explorability. If ever my conceptual Logtalk-based server leaves the stage of throwing out a few models and test spikes and becomes actual, coherent code, I will be looking close at Evennia for lessons: both good and bad.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: XP Tax

      OK, it sounds like you've done at least a modicum of thought on it beyond "wouldn't it be cool if...?".

      So here are my thoughts, welcome or otherwise.

      First, one of my big beefs with RPGs in general stems from the ur-game, D&D. D&D stemmed from wargaming roots and it's so painfully obvious that it did to anybody who actually played those games back when D&D was being introduced. One of the things that stems from this background is the experience system.

      The never-ending staircase of ever-increasing power has a direct ancestor in campaign wargames where units got better as they got more experience. The problem is that even in campaign wargames there were:

      1. Upper bounds.
      2. Typically an end to the process. (The campaign ended.)

      This didn't happen in D&D games, so you wound up with that ever-increasing levels thing reaching literally godlike levels. (Original D&D had, IIRC, only six levels max … but this was one of the first things dropped as people played the game.)

      The current shibboleth that this mimics the development of characters you see in the fictions it was based on is trivially observable bullshit. The stated sources of inspiration (Conan, the Grey Mouser stories, etc.) did not start off their stories with the heroes being incompetent nebbishes who could be defeated by a house cat half the time. The stories started with them being at least heroic and, perhaps, over the course of several novels/stories/whatever they would get a bit better. Most advances in the stories were advances of social construct, not powers and abilities. Conan didn't start off barely able to hold his sword and end off able to fight gods in the stories. Conan started off able to fight minor gods and ended off able to, you know, fight minor gods. But he started as an unregarded barbarian and ended as king.

      (Note: I am emphatically not saying that there was no development of character abilities in these stories! I'm saying that the development was far less than a typical RPG character undergoes in the D&D-style RPG vein…which includes Storyteller.)

      So my response to your (implied) question of "how do we control endless XP growth" is 无, the Chan (Zen) means of, essentially, unasking a badly-formulated question. The proper question isn't "how do we control XP so that we don't have huge imbalances of power?" it is rather "how do we manage player expectations so they don't seek this never-ending escalator of power?"

      Some modern games handle this far better. An example of this would be @Thenomain's and and my go-to example: Fate (Core or Accelerated Edition—FC and FAE respectively in the future). These games have "milestones" that, when met, allow character sheets to change. (I'll use FAE for my examples because it's my favoured flavour of Fate, but FC's systems are pretty much identical, just more verbose.)

      In FAE a "minor milestone" lets you choose one of (and only one of):

      • Switch the ratings of any two "approaches" [read: skills].
      • Rename one "aspect" [no real equivalent; think of it as redescribing facets of your character's social hooks or abilities] that isn’t your high concept.
      • Exchange one "stunt" [read: D&D3+ feat, kinda/sorta] for a different stunt.
      • Choose a new stunt.

      Of these options the only one that increases your character's ability in any measurable way is the last one. And that's a relatively minor increase. The rest are about changing the character's focus, like your example of the guy who picked up a gun skill for a specific reason and then didn't really need it any longer would be renaming an aspect.

      Then there are "significant milestones". In these you get to do any one of the minor milestone options plus you may do both of the following:

      • If you have a severe "consequence" [long-term injury effect] that’s been around for at least two sessions, you can clear it.
      • Raise the bonus of one approach by one.

      Note that only one of these involves measurably improving a character. (The other restores a damaged character.)

      Finally there are the "major milestones". In these you get to do a minor and significant milestone's options plus any or all of:

      • Take an additional point of refresh, which you may immediately use to purchase a stunt if you wish. [Again no real equivalent; this is the rate at which you get back your used-up "fate points".]
      • Rename your character’s "high concept" [effectively equivalent to a user-defined character class if you will].

      And again only one of these two improves the character (and given the fate point economy of the game, it's a pretty decent improvement). The other merely redefines it.

      Under the Fate-style "advancement" mechanism I personally think you have a far better model of character change than the D&D-based models that dominate RPGs. Fate itself is not necessarily a good fit for all genres (and most gamers, given how ludicrously conservative they tend to be!), but I think its advancement mechanism could be kit-bashed into other games in ways that make the power creep built into them less of a problem than they currently are for online play.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: XP Tax

      Whenever designing a system, it is best to consider:

      1. What problem am I trying to solve?
      2. Will this system solve that problem without causing more?
      3. Is this problem even worth worrying about?

      (In my experience, #3 is the one people tend to overlook. This is why so many systems are such utter shit.)

      In the specific world of coding (any kind of coding!) there is a precursor question which must be asked instead:

      1. Why do I want to write this system?

      If, as is so commonly the case in software, the answer to this question is "because I can" or "because it seems like a cool challenge" then stop right the fuck there and do something else. If it is more along the lines of "it is intended to solve <insert problem>" then go ahead and proceed with questions #1 through #3.

      So, @Hexagon, please answer these questions:

      1. Why do you want to implement this system?

      If your answer isn't some variant of "it would be cool" then:

      1. What actual problem are you trying to solve?
      2. Will this system solve that problem without causing more?
      3. Is this problem even worth worrying about?

      Be honest (with yourself at least), because if you're not, trust me, the feedback from MSB will be brutally so.

      posted in MU Questions & Requests
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: +wantrp Command Suggestion

      @surreality said in +wantrp Command Suggestion:

      In my dream world, we could also have something like +wantRP/faction <faction>=I want to get together with members of the faction to discuss my nefarious plan to monopolize the world's supply of Cheezits or +wantRP/sphere <sphere>=I'm new to the sphere and trying to make connections, if anyone is interested in RP with a pan flute player with a raccoon fetish, please get in touch for a scene!

      The extreme specificity of this example has me somewhat curious. And aroused.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Dead Celebrity Thread

      @Thenomain That was Buzz Aldrin.

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Rate A Concept

      @Thenomain said in Rate A Concept:

      Savage Worlds does have one of my most favorite RPG books that I've read for the story: Slipstream. I could probably build a hundred characters in this setting because of how pulpishly iconic they are meant to be, therefore there wouldn't feel like a wrong way to make one.

      I am meant to hate you, @Thenomain. Please stop having good taste!

      edited to add

      … it's a game where the rules are almost entirely in the powers and not in the game itself, leading to as @WTFE says as being haphazard and potentially confusing.

      I took another look at the book after reading this and yes, I've finally put my finger on why I don't like Savage Worlds. This thing right here is the big one: the rules are everywhere except in the actual rules section. In this regard they're like the old Champions rules (before the multiple streamlinings of the larger Hero system), latter-day D&D rules, etc.

      Thanks for putting to clear words what it was the bugged me about this game.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Rate A Concept

      @SG said in Rate A Concept:

      I like savage worlds because it's incredibly simple to run, which I feel is important for mushing.

      See, I just find the mechanics too confusing and random to be easy to run for. For quick pick-up games I'd likely favour Fate. (I picked up Fate Core and Fate Accelerated Edition on the same trip, in these cases with my eyes open as I'd already purchased the PDFs before buying hard.)

      Starting characters are actually able to dive into adventures being capable of carrying interesting stories and it's super easy to wing stuff.

      That's one of the appeals to FC/FAE for me. With the added benefit that I can actually make a character without getting lost.

      The only real difficulty I have with it is planning for wild die craziness.

      That would be one of my problems with the system, yes. The other is the reliance upon miniatures or miniatures-analogues. And the templates. (And did I mention yet that I'm not entirely certain how to actually make a character?)

      When I compared it to scotch, this was for a reason. I get that other people like SW, and even occasionally understand what it is they like about it. I just ... don't get it for myself.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Sleepy boredom...

      @Faceless said in Sleepy boredom...:

      MU*ing never changes.

      No matter how much it needs to. 😄

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Rate A Concept

      @ThatGuyThere said in Rate A Concept:

      I like the idea but would prefer almost any system to be used rather then Savage Worlds.

      Savage Worlds is one of these games I really, really, really wanted to like. A lot of people I know, and whose opinions I trust, love this game to death. So much so that when I went to Ottawa this summer I picked up the core book without even going through a friend's copy or playing a session first, spending rather more of my limited walking-around money for the summer than I'd really wanted to in the process.

      And…

      I just don't get it. I don't see the appeal. It looks like a pretty bog standard game to me. I see nothing that it brings to the table that I can't get more of from any number of so-called "OSR" games (like my current favourite in the genre). The mechanics are overly fussy and confusing and I'm still not sure if I've figured out how to even make a character properly despite three cover-to-cover readings of the book.

      This game is like the scotch of RPGs to me. Loads of people drool over it and to me it is, at its best, a complete "meh". I just don't get it.

      posted in Mildly Constructive
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Monaco Bay Weyr at Pernworld Mush: Burn, baby... Burn?!

      I'm just flabbergasted at someone posting a trash bin fire as an enticing plot lead-in to sell the game. Really? Was the paint drying plot considered too risqué?

      posted in Adver-tis-ments
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • RE: Dead Celebrity Thread

      @Kestrel said in Dead Celebrity Thread:

      @WTFE said in Dead Celebrity Thread:

      The 2016 Song.

      The comments tho. 😐

      Youtube has a comments section? I don't see it.

      (Seriously, I don't. Because I adblocked the motherfucking section. Like I adblock almost every comments section anywhere.)

      posted in Tastes Less Game'y
      WTFE
      WTFE
    • 1
    • 2
    • 25
    • 26
    • 27
    • 28
    • 29
    • 56
    • 57
    • 27 / 57