The Dark Side of online Role-Playing

[Carex]

@thesuntsar said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

he doesn't want his impressionable kid communicating with internet strangers behind closed doors so the computer is in a public space.

@Meg said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

in what world is like-- don't engage (AS AN UNDERAGE PERSON) in a sexual way with people you don't know who they are online an abusive stance?

It's puritanical thinking like this that messes kids up. It teaches kids that sex is dangerous and bad and they should feel bad for wanting to know about it.

"We don't do this in our house." is saying to your kid that if they engage in this behavior or even like it, there is something terribly wrong with them.

Talk to any young trans person or gay person who grew up in a religious household and they will tell you, having your parents put down laws about what is and what is not acceptable things to think about and feel will mess you up.

I know these parents think they are doing what is best for their children but history, statistics, science, and experience, all show this is not the case.

Your kid is going to learn about sex and it's going to be confusing and emotionally problematic enough without his or her number 1 source of emotional security in life making them feel like shit for having thoughts and feelings they can't control.

Policing your kid's exploration of sexuality is way more developmentally harmful than letting them go online and learn about sex on their own terms.

Parents who try and control everything just end up driving a wedge between themselves and their children. It's a bad, bad, idea.

[mietze]

I am going to be making a locked thread in the hogpit (for now) to move the personal attack posts. They may be deleted since I really do not think that's the best place for this particular attack. Or the thread may be opened once the admin have a chance to talk so people can bash away.

Discussing and disagreeing with parenting methods is just fine.

However. Accusing someone of being an abusive parent, especially how it was done in this instance, is inappropriate, especially on this subforum. If anyone has any concerns or questions then they are welcome to contact me, Ganymede, or Arkandel.

[Meg]

@Carex you can learn your sexuality and interact online in such a way without interacting sexually with strangers. which was the whole key point of buttercup's posts. i mean, idk what to tell you if you want to draw conclusions based on what you want to hear.

/shrug

[bear_necessities]

Are any of you parents? I mean, letting your kid do whatever they want online to "learn about sex on their own terms" can be extremely harmful. I wish my parents had noticed the signs that @buttercup posted when I was a kid - I wish they had talked to me, instead of letting me "learn about things on my own terms" and trusting me to be responsible.

It isn't abusive to monitor your child's online usage to make sure they are using the internet responsibily. It is not ABUSE to talk to your child about sex and the dangers of people on the internet. None of the things @buttercup mentioned are inheritently abusive UNLESS YOU USE THEM ABUSIVELY.

[Carex]

@mietze said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

I am going to be making a locked thread in the hogpit (for now) to move the personal attack posts

Feel free to just delete them. I was just trying to explain why I didn't just agree with what, on its surface, seems like a perfectly innocuous post.

I was trying to illustrate that maybe agreeing without putting any deeper thought into it was unwise.

Kinda like this: https://youtu.be/fYOA8gXpios

[TNP]

I didn't see anything in the original post that implies they're against sex education, is intolerant of LGBT people or is, in any way, anti-sex or sexuality or that there isn't open, honest communication between them and their kids.

ETA:

@Carex said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

I was trying to illustrate that maybe agreeing without putting any deeper thought into it was unwise.

Perhaps you should put some deeper thought into it.

[Cobalt]

@Carex Except you could have started with 'What do you mean by what is and isn't acceptable in your house, Buttercup'? Rather than going full force. No one disagrees that telling your kid what they can explore is ok. But we do disagree that trying to keep them safe while they explore is abusive.

[mietze]

@Carex Next time "try to explain" without personal attacks, if that is your motive. Or at least try to remember where the thread is that you are posting in.

[Carex]

@bear_necessities said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

Are any of you parents? I mean, letting your kid do whatever they want online to "learn about sex on their own terms" can be extremely harmful.

Let's compare the "Safe" method described by Buttercup to the "Correct" method actually recommended by experts.

It's "safe" if you pressure your child into never looking for anything sexual and purposefully avoiding anything that might make them question what their parents tell them. However, it's also unhealthy.

It's "correct" to let them discover things on their own terms and come to their parents with questions for clarifications without judgment. Instead of the parent making them feel guilty for having feelings, curiosity, and exploration, the parent acts as a pillar of support and unconditional love. This is far, far, more healthy.

Yes, it's very possible your child may see something disturbing that you will have to explain to them and it may make you uncomfortable but it's 100% guaranteed to mess up your kid if you try and police their sexual exploration with pressure to make them conform to what you think they should be allowed to feel or know.

[Roz]

@Carex said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

@bear_necessities said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

Are any of you parents? I mean, letting your kid do whatever they want online to "learn about sex on their own terms" can be extremely harmful.

Let's compare the "Safe" method used by Buttercup to the "Correct" method actually recommended by experts.

It's "safe" if you pressure your child into never looking for anything sexual and purposefully avoiding anything that might make them question what their parents tell them. However, it's also unhealthy.

You are drawing extensive assumptions that this is what happens in Buttercup's home.

[Carex]

@Roz said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

You are drawing extensive assumptions that this is what happens in Buttercup's home.

If I'm wrong, Buttercup could speak up. I'm just going with the information available.

[insomniac7809]

@Carex You're really not. Jumping from "keep fifteen-year-olds from being groomed by grown-ass adults" to "butterfly is trying to protect their kids from anything sexual" is just such a bad-faith leap.

[buttercup]

@Cobaltasaurus

Not that you were really asking but thank you for framing that.

Acceptable Behavior: Learning and experiencing sexuality among age appropriate peers. Masturbation.

Uncceptable Behavior: Exploring sexuality with an anonymous individual online.

My son's particular disability leaves him susceptible to being emotionally manipulated. Less so now that his brain is catching up to his natural struggles in social settings. He has a private journal online I dont have access to for example and I allow him to password protect it so he has the confidence in safe spaces existing for him. I don't know the password to his cell phone nor would I impede in his ability to experience life as an individual. Because of some of his struggles I want him to experience a little more then most as he has a diverse and a strong support network to live his best life. I am happy to nurture and approve of whatever lifestyle he takes and regardless of how he identifies.

Sorry if it seemed otherwise. In this one area I am protective because I feel there are legitimate and healthy checks appropriate for my son. Every child is of course different and has different needs.

-B

[Cobalt]

@buttercup I don't really think thanks is necessary, here. I feel like most of read what you were saying and got what you meant. That it wasn't WHAT but HOW. However, thank you for clarifying for us.

[Ganymede]

No one has any damn business telling a parent about what is appropriate or not regarding their child-rearing choices without a request for input. Mind your fucking business.

We all may have opinions on what is acceptable and what is not, but keep it to yourself if someone isn’t looking for your thoughts. And I don’t recall buttercup asking for them.

[GreenFlashlight]

@Ganymede said in The Dark Side of online Role-Playing:

No one has any damn business telling a parent about what is appropriate or not regarding their child-rearing choices without a request for input. Mind your fucking business.

We all may have opinions on what is acceptable and what is not, but keep it to yourself if someone isn’t looking for your thoughts. And I don’t recall buttercup asking for them.

Tell me if I'm being too literal here, but: we have CPS for a reason.

[Ganymede]

@GreenFlashlight

We do have CPS. If you suspect abuse, report it.

This ain’t CPS.

[silverfox]

@GreenFlashlight

That is a huge leap. CPS is there when there are legitimate reports of abuse.

Nothing beyond some seriously convoluted jumps of logic from individuals here has indicated there is any abuse going on. In fact the exact opposite is in place where a parent is attempting to keep their child from needless harm.

[Macha]

I want to point out that all I said was that knowing their online stuff was being logged could inhibit kids from searching out things to broaden their worldview. I remember losing hours down a black hole of Googling things. A lot of them were not things I would have addressed with parents/teachers/etc.

I have helped raise kids, though none of them were mine by birth. Limiting screen time? Yes. But we never key logged or logged where they were going. We gave them the usual warnings about not handing out personal information, please be careful about etc etc.

I was not trying to imply anyone was abusive. Just how privacy is important, etc, off what I had.

[RightMeow]

First, I agree with @Ganymede - don't tell someone how to parent their child. You have NO clue what is going on in their world, with their child, etc. Nor do you have a right to know.

Second, it is fucking TERRIFYING raising a child. You are always doing it wrong or not enough. You are too strict or not strict enough. You are surrounded with predators, etc. So as a parent, it is terrifying out there. Completely terrifying. Fight me on this.

Third, no one has to tell you the rules of their household. I'll be honest. Anything with a password, I have that password. If you are my child, I know how to access your shit. You know I will, but I will wait for a reason. Don't give me a reason by showing me that trust can't be given and we are good. I've never had to use a password, but I have them. You don't like that, that's fine. It's not YOUR job to protect my child; it's mine.

My goal as a parent is to have a child that is secure and has the least amount of trauma that I can prevent. I can't prevent it all. They have to make their own choices, but it's my job to guide them. I don't want them in jail and I don't .. let me say this again.. DO NOT want to identify them in a morgue.

So if she needs to protect her child however she feels is right, your job is to shut the fuck up. There isn't abuse. If there was, call a person. Have it checked out. I understand teenagers need space to explore who they are, but they are still very much children. They don't (sorry to any teenagers on here) understand some of the depravity that we do as adults. Honestly, I hope they don't learn about it in an intimate way. I hope they do get their childhood and thank god for people that will protect it.

So TL;DR -- back off of parents just trying to make it so they aren't identifying a body, filing a missing person's, or dealing with a child's trauma at someone else's hands.