@Jeshin said:
Hey,
So I'm going to take... A week (think I can do this in a week) and re-read through this entire monster of a thread. I'll then brew on it for a week, so in 2 weeks time, I'll get back to you all with any significant changes we'll be making.
In the meantime though Crayon will continue business as usual with our weekly updates.
Talk to you in 2 weeks.
Couldn't people just go to your website, if they were inclined to, to find your updates?
@zombiegenesis It's more that there are games with literally /hundreds/ of FC's, but so many of them are sat on by people who are playing 4-5 FC's that the list of who is actually a compelling character is reduced dramatically.
With a smaller FC list, that danger is even higher.
So imho, you will need to do a one FC per person type of situation.
I actually think the lack of downvotes has increased the amounts of dog piles and negativity.
Maybe it's just my perception, but before, when someone did something I thought was just fucking stupid I could downvote and move on. Anyone could mouse over who downvoted and see that I did and thus didn't like what was said.
I didn't have to post anything to express my displeasure.
Now I do.
I code everything in notepadd++ it's a very good tool. I should have mentioned it in my first post. Sorry.
EDIT: In case it needs to be said, I am in agreement with @Ganymede and @Arkandel but quoted what I felt needed to be agreed with.
@Ganymede said:
@Arkandel said:
Your goals are noble but you're focusing on them rather than on the means to achieve them.
This.
Do not worry of fairness. Someone will accuse you of being unfair. Maybe you are, and maybe you aren't, but it is largely situational. Further, it is more important to have a fair outcome than to be a fair person.
Many of us have been down this road before. There is a large difference between being fair and acting fair. The first is a matter of perception; the second is a matter of judgment.
When you are in the position of building a game, you can either build what you want, or what you think players will want. Personally building what I think players will want has always been a soul sucking experience because the 'players' want stuff that isn't good for them, the game, or the story.
Any good GM/ST/DM has to be able and willing to say 'No.' or games will rapidly fall apart, a MU* is no different, in fact with the number of players that a MU* can acquire it'll probably fall apart even faster than a table top would become monty haul.
Sometimes monty haul is awesome fun, if everyone is into it, but when it comes to game decisions trying to rule by committee... or democracy... I have never seen end well.
Have a vision. Build it. Make it what you want and people will either play and enjoy it, or they won't, but at least you're being true to yourself, and having fun making a game you love.
@zombiegenesis said in Young Justice / Teen Titans MUX:
snip l so I think I'd be open if someone wanted to app a teen Red Lantern or something. *snip
Damnit... I had not much interest in this, until right /there/.
@Apu I know how you feel, my neice is Autistic and I love her to death but right now you're being baited and feeding the troll.
@Taika I don't know, when I code I set out and be like: I need this command, say a dice roller. Then I go through and figure out what the dice roller needs to do for that system, what attributes it needs to pull from (if any) etc. Once I know what it is I am making then I start coding, and I test it. If it doesn't look how I want, I tweak the code, test again, until I get it how I want and working without running into loops and whatnot.
When I am writing a piece of code, say Chargen, as I am writing I will sometimes realize I am being silly and making the code more complicated then it has to be, or inefficient, and end up re-writing it.
I have never once sat down and wrote a perfect line of code that was part of a complex system without it needing editing, tweaks, or even full re-writes upon occasion. I am just not that good so I try not to get hung up on what mistakes I make, or how many times I might need to start from scratch because each time I do, when I get it done and working, I've usually learned a lot.
It's probably different for the psycho-coders like Ashen and Theno and Chime etc.
@Soresu said:
I never played on Minos Cluster, but apparently it was a game among the Gods.. I am sorry I missed out on it.
It had severe clique issues, I tried playing as a new independent and essentially it became like ATS to me because nobody was willing to let newcomers into the RP. So all I could do was fly around and do cargo runs and not once did I even get inspected so there was no RP there either...
I don't know, maybe it was the time I tried Minos Cluster but it was very much 'full but dead' when I got there.
As a person who has ran into a lot of discrimination for various things beyond my control RL, I can say that when it happens IC it all comes down to one thing:
Is the person doing it being a dick OOCly too.
The quickest thing to make it be an issue OOCly for me is if the 'discriminatory' character says:
I am just playing in character. The character is racist.
And then just uses that as a defense for anything, and to try and get out of any ICC due to their ICA.
At that point the character is not the only asshole present.
I am playing a bigoted character, but it is mild, and will be more of a social thing than anything else. Will it affect her RP and story? Absolutely possible, I certainly hope so, maybe she will one day even grow out of it. Maybe not.
What I will /not/ do is use it as an excuse to attack other PC's or justify ruining a scene, or make it the /focus/ of a scene because no. It might be a thing but if it turns the PC into nothing but an Antagonist it's not really /adding/ anything an NPC couldn't do better.
I remember playing on a Western game way back when (Not sure if it was @faraday 's Sweetwater Crossing or not) and it /was/ a disconnect to the theme, which can be a major turn off, when nobody seems to be playing things the way theme says things are.
I wanted to play a minority who would do awesome and great things in /spite/ of her race and gender, which is very appropriate for the setting but... it didn't turn out that way IC.
IC discrimination should be handled ICly, but by the same token, nobody can be forced to RP with someone or something they don't enjoy. If my PC's bigotry becomes an issue that causes her to be excluded, then that is on /me/ and I won't take offense to that.
I /chose/ to play a bigot, that means I get to reap what I sow.
@Chime I wouldn't discount the option of coding mux like commands into moo, it'd make it a lot easier for people who are used to that code to jump into the game and get involved. If the commands aren't what people are used to they tend to simply walk away.
Or make a really solid tutorial so that people can get the information on how to use the code upfront
Sure I know these things, but there is still something soul sucking about people attacking what you're doing, before you have even finished it.
Yeah I know, grow a thicker skin or whatever, but sometimes I throw ideas out there just to test the waters, and sometimes I am /going/ to do them regardless of what anyone else thinks come hell or highwater.
@gangofdolls If a game has a must of 'human' characters, I personally find it easier to get into a character I can draw on more of my own experiences with than not. If I try to play a straight white person I disconnect from the character far more often because it is difficult (for me) to form a bond to the character. I worry if I am doing it justice, and being believable, and I often here the converse, playing another ethnicity or sexuality it is very easy to come across as a bag full of tropes.
Really, most of the problem with bigots in games is the ones who carry it over OOC or their 'desire' to play one means anyone who doesn't enjoy that type of interaction is suddenly in the 'wrong' for not wanting to interact with the bigot.
That idea is the problem, nobody should be forced to deal with something that makes them uncomfortable OOCly.
We have Fade to Black rules on a large swathe of games. We have rules about not being an asshole OOCly.
If someone /chooses/ to make a Bigot, then they are /choosing/ to deal with those consequences of doing so. They should do so maturely and respectfully instead of being a whining child about it. That proves they don't have the maturity to play that type of character.
That said: I much prefer completely fictional bigotry as a theme element. If it's bigotry against dwarves, elves, whatever... that is far less likely to impact people on an OOC level because as far as I know, none of us are those things and it's much harder to take it personally.
I don't have that much of a problem with SGP, I rip some of it out, but much of it works fine even today and I don't see the need to do so. Admittedly I don't have the time, or the skill, to be a psychocoder like Theno, Ashen, or Faraday and the rest but for a hobby coder like myself, I like SGP even if it isn't the sweetest thing ever.
I do code my own stuff for what's missing from SGP as I find it necessary but a lot of it just works and that's fine.
I wouldn't mind seeing something like it for Rhost though, and would welcome it too since it might give me enough code to look at that I might be able to teach myself the differences. I basically am self taught learning through osmosis and help files on what the functions do.
I am sure my code is crap by some accounts but as long as it works, isn't easily broken, and doesn't crash the game then that's all that really matters right?
In all fairness I will likely do a shadowrun 5e game in the future but I'll need more people willing to help run it. Games always need good staff.
Bad players can kill games. Bad staff can kill games. LACK of staff will kill a game faster than anything.
@gangofdolls The Drow thing has a lot of backstory to it, and they were dark before they were ever cast underground. I can see why some might think of it that way however.
The real crux of it is this: There is no way to truly avoid discrimination because at this time humans are discriminatory by nature.
Sometimes it's racial ethnicity.
Sometimes it's social disparity.
Sometimes it's land of origin.
We as a species are always finding ways to /be/ discriminatory, so there's no real way of getting around that.
We even here on this board are discriminatory against certain types of RP, certain ways people describe their characters, certain character tropes.
Does any of this make it right? Probably not but we don't treat others equally. The only thing we can do is try to stop problem behavior.
As for the topic of the thread though, how should IC discrimination be handled? ICly. I don't hang out with people I dislike RL if I can avoid them. Why should it be any different in a game? I can dislike a character though, and still like the player, and still have fun interacting with that character but ICly, I guess it comes back to ICA=ICC.
At least for me.
@HelloProject I don't see Evennia taking over anytime soon. Why? Inertia. The genre and hobby is decades old now, the people who are used to it are used to using the older code bases. Even things like Rhost which added a lot of functionality remains the same on the surface of how to use it.
Let's put it this way, they've been talking about Evennia for years now, and yet I've never seen a successful Evennia mush. They may be out there, but I've never seen it myself.
As for learning MUSH code, it'll never really earn you dollars, but if you want to build a game using one of the other source codes, go right ahead.
@Tez At this point... there is not a single non-consent super game around I can find. Even Champions has consent to an extent. I guess I'll check it out again now that it is not 6 AM EST.
Bannings should be simple and to the point:
Player A was banned because they violated our policies that result in banning.
Done.
If you absolutely must list which policy just to head off questions. Bannings should be transparent imho, you don't have to name who was the victim or anything like that, but you most definitely should state which policy was the one that was violated.
This serves several purposes, it lets the players know you won't take violations of that policy, it warns people on other games that said person violated this specific policy, and it provides transparency on the situation that is needed.
@Arkandel Never been on ARX. So never seen it. It has qualities in a game I dislike, I hate roster games, so I've never checked it out.