Posts made by Lotherio

I generally try to avoid drama, and not contribute.

I heard about EC and the cloning. Now that Ennersea was said, it all came clear. I remember nearly playing on Ennersea and being interested in theme but not having the time to learn it. But was involved in other things at the time too; Star Wars 1, playing the last Dragonlance Mu around (one of the first to do episodic RP, one conflict that concluded in weeks to months, then fast forward a generation to the next conflict, new theme influenced by player characters and their actions in the prior conflict), then eventually Redemption.

@Misadventure said in Historical MU*s:

Really, you have to ask yourself, like any game, why do you want to make THIS particular game? When it comes to history, hopefully you see a setting charged with a lot of potential change, complex thought and conflicts to dig into, several cultures, and some relatively easy to grasp roles.

This right here, when making it or choosing to play on it. Staff should allow for change, players should hope for it. Pedantics aside, much like staff not offering something to do can kill any game, there being no room to change status quo at all can kill a game just the same.

And back to @Arkandel, and historical deviation (alternate in changing the course of history, not alternate in having changeling and mage and magic), the game needs to not have its course set, but the potential to deviate and find something new. The conflict and potential need to be there. For me, the three periods I mentioned have that potential.

@Ganymede said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio said in Historical MU*s:

I'd venture to say most staff who offer things to do suffer from the same blow out of no fun when half the players always argue with them on when certain armor and tech came about and complaining about when they should be able to get it.

You probably have more experience with this than I do. I may have more experience with telling people to fuck off politely, which would be my tactic in the event that someone complained thusly.

Heh, this probably happens quite often too. First the argument over historical accuracy, to the point of putting the people having fun to sleep or onto other games, then comes the fuck off part, and then its the three people still discussing some nonsense about manifest destiny and the Gadsden Purchase in the race for the transcontinental railroad. Aka: The middle step, and it always happens.

@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio , @Ganymede, you are both monsters and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I don't come to MSB to learn things.

This will be remembered, it will be grouped in with all the other rumors about me. I am a monster on top of all that. Also, I like feet too, I'm a podiaphile; for the pedantists.

@Ganymede said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio said in Historical MU*s:

This sort of pedantic is why most historical games fail.

This is a cop-out. This is not why most historical games fail. Most historical games fail for the reasons already obliquely referenced in prior posts.

Having a MU* based in history is a great idea. Any game set in a historical setting is awesome. The problem, more often than not, is the lack of things to do. In fact, I would wager that the vast majority of games that do not live past the first year die because there's nothing for the players to do but exist in an awesome setting.

No one will give a shit whether you call the settlement York, Jorvik, Eoforwic, or Eboracum if there's something to do. Pick what you like about the setting and the theme, and make a game out of it. If you like the Period of Invasion, I would recommend creating or adopting a system of gameplay that allows players to manage or assist in managing whatever fiefdom they are attached to.

I'd venture to say most staff who offer things to do suffer from the same blow out of no fun when half the players always argue with them on when certain armor and tech came about and complaining about when they should be able to get it.

This is sort of turning 'there is nothing to do' on me, I can think of a million things to do and have fun doing them. I'm sort of moving to defense of me saying I'd like to play in a Danelaw game.

@Thenomain said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio said:

Beyond this all honestly depends on what the players do.

And there is the key. What do players do on this game? What do characters? You say you don't want dirt-toiling realism, but then what's? Are the characters leaders trying to stave back the Danes? Will they be allowed to? What character model would you use? How to they do this, because I can't even begin to imagine unless you have traits that would answer these questions. (D&D had one for a while that I can't remember. Birthright?)

What RP scenarios are there for Vikings? For monks? Yes, I know some of it writes itself (Chicago 1930s), but most of it doesn't.

Again, I'm only saying I want such a game to play on, I have no interest in creating such a game at this juncture in time.

If its me personally playing a game, I'm a daytime player, staff never or rarely do daytime plots. What would I do as a player? I'd plot to be the leader of my hearth because they are incompetent. If it helps non historical players and since this is a WoD based forum (or was and most folks still come from that standpoint), what do you do as a Vampire politically? What for your leader to give you something to do, or go and do it.

As for who is allowed, if there was enough staff to run plots, sure, local peasantry and former land holders loyal to the old regime could be allowed, create some player conflict. Or following @Misadventure, if the populace is small, the game focuses on one hirth, the group decides if they stay in Jorvik, if they raid North Umbria, if they sail off to other lands for raiding, if they settle and farm.

Lots of decision to be made.

If I was running the game, the focus would be the hirths that came with the Great Heathen Army, how they establish themselves and how they deal with external threats. Day to day, players really do need to decide who they support, what they do to live, how they interact with the local populace now either forced to live side by side with Danes or be rebels and guerillas, a thorn in the side of the players. What the average player does is up to them, I can't dictate what they do, but I would imagine daily activity is hunting, dealing with locals, paying homage to their hirth leader or planning to dispose of them. If folks want to go on walks and go to the tavern, I won't stop them, it happens on games, can't stop purely social pretendy fun time. As staff, plots would involve external threats to the group to keep the Danes on their toes, from invading armies, to more hirths arriving (do they take them in, do they let them go). Group survival dynamics (this is oddly sounding like apocalypse survival game, instead of zombie, you have Northumbria, Mercia, other Danes, Saxons, gaelic-norse, gaelic).

@Ganymede said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio said in Historical MU*s:

Danelaw ...
York is sacked, the Viking have moved in and named it Jorvik.

You mean Eoforwic, right? The Danes sacked Eoforwic.

Yes, I'm that kind of pedant.

Yes, we could use the Roman name, Eboracum, too if we wanted too. York is what most people will know and why I choose to say it, even though that itself derives from Jorvik, which is what the Danes call Eoforwic. This sort of pedantic is why most historical games fail. Semantics and arguing over who is right, as @Kanye-Qwest pointed out, three people being pedantic on the OOC chan about whether Vikings or the Japanese were better at folding iron. Or how many links in the chainmail for the specific period.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio I get it, I just still think that sort of game would require constant GMing and plot feed to sustain any number of players, unless you just want three history pedants arguing in the ooc channel about which clasp was possible in what year and what it meant for pack animals, or some shit.

We're on the same page, I never said to sandbox it without any meta/plot to keep some interest in it. I'm not looking to develop such games myself, so am trying not to focus on what to do so much from a staff perspective other than saying I'm interested in those time periods.

I can develop a slight timeline for one of them if we really want to see one so everyone gets a picture of what to do on a historical mu other than sit at the bar or do bandits/robbers/horse riding RP.

Danelaw ...
York is sacked, the Viking have moved in and named it Jorvik.

Current situation: Ivar and Halfdan have stayed the winter with the settlers, but its spring, they are taking a slew of ships further up and around the coast, to meet Amlaib.

There are 10 or so hearths (hirths) players may choose to be from. Two or three think they should be in charge, Ivar couldn't give half a wit to who is in control of Jorvik. The initial thrust is that once Ivar and Halfdan have gone away, both Northumbria and Mercia, Wessex is on the rise with want for revenge.

News arrives from the north, raiders of Aella have started to come closer to areas the Danes have moved into. A few of the hearths can go participate in some skirmishes and discover a larger army is coming. Gear up for a battle.

On the eve of the battle, within a week or so, the raiders of Mercia start as well, along with news of more Danes landing in Anglia to follow where the Great Heathen Army has come and gone.

I'd include a gaelic-norse mix to the west, around Strathclyde as well. Potential groups to ally with or make enemies of. Aella and Northumbria is always an enemy, along with Mercia.

Beyond this all honestly depends on what the players do.

@Misadventure said in Historical MU*s:

Sounds closer to a low to middle fantasy game, which happens to use geography, cultures and a rough history outline from reality. Similar to how Conan took place in a mishmash of places and cultures based on Europe etc.

Seems like it could work.

I'd avoid fantasy in these instances, only to keep it Historical, and I enjoy historical. Plenty do to without it being fantasy. All human, based on history, even if alternate history (alternate just meant as a deviation, not to introduce fantasy or supernatural elements). I was going with Chicago Mush reference in my other reponse as it was a fun place when folks were playing it; and surely, Changeling Prohibition Era would be pretty fun, but so was regular old historical Chicago Mu*.

I was just trying to turn it back to historical as it was deviating into historical WoD.

@Coin said in Historical MU*s:

@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:

@Coin said in Historical MU*s:

The Hyborean Age would be a great era for the kind of game I was talking about above.

At that point isn't it just a fantasy game?

I'm sorry, what would you call a game with vampires, werewolves, mages, et al? Historical Realism?

I think its only meant to distinguish between any other thread about new games or what people want and the thrust of this thread which was Historical Mu*s.

I think there is a line between Historical Mu* and say Fantasy Historical or WoD historical. Mind, I wouldn't mind some good fantasy or alternate history. But I'm good with Historical too.

As the OP mentioned, Chicaco Mush, I'd love to play some of that again.

@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:

@Kanye-Qwest That's the main issue with historical games, always. You have to do movie/TV takes on them (i.e. only touch the surface) and unlike modern games they absolutely can never be sandbox since people simply won't know enough to kick-start thematic RP on their own.

The plot and metaplot gears must be constantly turning for a MU* like this unless it's basically Witcher with RL history names pinned on everything.

The areas I'm after have enough to have some plot/metaplot going. There is a bit of turmoil and conclict in place. History may have to be condensed a little to spur some things; such as the huns and Budapest early years, the huns don't show up till later, but introducing it as an element early on gives a little more conflict potential. Or the Novgorod idea, they have to deal with the Tsar of the area deciding what do to with this group as well as the Mongol's take on this new group if it turns the Tsar towards ideas of rebelling from the whole system of paying up the chain so to speak. The Vikings are making decisions left and right as they have settled this newly invaded land, squabbling amongst themselves, dealing with multiple kingoms on their borders, probably having Saxons come to visit/want to stay, other visitors from the homeland, new hearths arriving and upsetting the balance.

It would take staff effort to keep driving them all, but there is enough conflict, turmoil, politics around the time periods it shouldn't settle into slice of life - and in the same vein, for those folks that like slice of life, the status quo shouldn't just overturn one day.

@Kanye-Qwest said in Historical MU*s:

@Lotherio Considering that most people don't have the sort of historical knowledge necessary to rp slice of life in such specific settings, what do you propose people rp about? Are you longing for these settings in a mud game where there's free pk and raiding/war to keep people occupied?

Just to be clear, I don't imagine folks would be interested in playing slice of life in any historical context ever. No one wants to play toiling in the dirt, living in filth, dealing with smallpox, dysentery, measles, leprosy, typhus or the plague.

No, I am not looking for a Mud, or free PK. PK is an option with reason certainly, as it is on most WoD games. I'm not proposing anything new or different.

I do believe most folks have watched Vikings or Braveheart (or Camelot, or Merlin, or some such) to have an idea of things to do on a day to day basis. Strengthening family/clan structures, establishing their own lands (even if small plot), or their own position in their local structure, or shirking some work to live instead of toiling in the dirt. Vikings was good at showing how one man rose in such a setting, but also shows a good deal of 'slice of life' one could do without being bored when things aren't happening.

Everyone has played enough WoD to get how politicking can work, or enough L&L games to get the basis for what would drive any game. Its setting up political groups in the settings to give folks some ambition and drive. In this case its dependent on the setting.

So 1) - hearths: the Viking structure of one hearth to one boat, the hearths (family/clans) that came over, and the decisions they make, to raid, to settle, who should be in charge. Groups upping each other for control as Ivar and Halfdan move off to join Amlib and raid in Ireland instead, or focus only on Aella for the time, leaving others to deal with Mercia and the southern kingdoms. Its deciding on a number of hearths to join for political agendas, one group wants to settle, another wants to raid the wealthly lands of Mercia, another thinks Mercia is too strong to anger currently.

2. Pick any number of Slavic groups/clans, this is the politics. Throw in some of the Tsar's groups, or the Mongols even as they come to collect taxes and have to deal with this stand up group on their borders. Its rich enough to have enough conflict right there between external invasion and internal struggles of who should be in control of this group that has come together.

3. A little more rich than the above two. You have Celtic groups/clans/families and the incursion of the Roman settlement. Skirmishes from time to time, Roman fall out with senate policies, politics back home, and their necessity to deal with the locals (for those not familiar with what this entails, watch Game of Thrones and the concerns of the Watch and those beyond the wall (or read up on Hadrain's wall)).

I don't want to go into detail, I have no time to develop any theme for such games. I'm just saying what I would want.

If we're putting in votes for what we want in a historical game, here are mine:

1. Daneland/law, after the sacking of York by Ivar the Boneless (yes spoiler alert for those not familiar with where Vikings is going) and Halfdan Ragnarson. Something of them (various groups of hearths) settling in to establish themselves here, dealing with Aella of Northumbria and the kings of Mercia and Wessex as they try to settle. For a little more turmoil, the clans of Ireland at this time and the various Viking/Viking gaelic groups struggling over there would be interesting too, but pre-Danelaw to keep the conflict high with neighbors (not that it lessons much after, but the first decade or so deals with expansionism and fighting more with the neighbors and is less convoluted by laws and treaties).

2. Novgorod, either the settling of the various Slavic clans in 11th century, or something with the Swedes and other crusaders around the 13th century.

3. Obuda/buda/pest: something Roman Era, where Celts have already settled here and the Romans are just arriving. Could condense and go for hyper history/timeline, include the Hungarians at this point cause they have such a rich history with Atilla and his dealings with the Romans of the Eastern Empire (and would make for more factions of interest).

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

A fire truck had its sirens on and was coming from the opposite direction so I stopped on my bike, other cars did... but this chick walking her dog who was about to cross the road turns at the sound, sighs at it then crosses deliberately, forcing it to stop completely. But it's okay I guess because she had a hurried pace on as she did it.

What the hell, lady.

People not stopping for fire/rescue/police like this always agitate me, no matter if its foot, bike, car, whatever. Heaven forbid, if their family is mistreated by any of these and receives slow response time that results in more injury/harm they will all be the first to the lawyers ... but otherwise, first responders doing their jobs is a nuisance to them I guess.

Thanks all, yeah its just confusing. I'm approachable, I don't try to hide anything about myself, I'm not trying to get on Catfish any time soon. I like to think its purely confusion, but if I did anything to upset someone ... well, still, I'm approachable.

Here are the rumors that I am hearing:

• I have a history of making games and leaving them shortly after their start.

• I started another medieval game, and was involved with another staffer on this game and I caused so much OOC drama it caused some staff split or some such.

• I specifically try to meet women through games and have a history of using them and leaving them in a purely online fashion (I don't know how that even works, but I've supposedly dated numerous girls and dumped them on-line).

I put them in order of concern, I don't want a reputation of making and leaving games before they get going, if I make something new I want people to try it and I want to play it. The staff drama too, if I offer someone to staff with me, I don't want them to think I'm a drama bomb. The dating stuff is just bizarre. I've made a few friends RL through this, that I can count on my hand, that knows my real name, I theirs and we stay in touch to keep up on each others lives. Most don't play are play limited and on other places these days, just friends.

@Arkandel said in Realms - Sir Kay - Lotherio:

@Lotherio said in Realms - Sir Kay - Lotherio:

Its coming to my attention that there are a lot of rumors flying around about me and on-line dating and having a history of making games and dumping them and starting staff OOC drama.

Ethel Barrett once said, “We would worry far less about what others think of us if we realized how seldom they do.”

It is quite true.

This doesn't stop the pages I keep getting asking if I did x, y, or z, of which I have noclue.

Thanks all, could just be genuine confusion too. But I'm here to clear it up if people want to ask my anything.

I miss Strife in the Age of Steam. Some love went in there, but niche theme too I think, hence low interest. The DB is still here, waiting for me to download it onto a server and hit ./restart ...

Pokémon, I'm a trainer. I catch them in pokeballs and take them to gyms. I will be the best trainer there ever was ... oh wait, that's from the show, its not me.

Its coming to my attention that there are a lot of rumors flying around about me and on-line dating and having a history of making games and dumping them and starting staff OOC drama.

You have me confused with other people and I keep having to explain myself to multiple people, many of them long time friends who hear these rumors now and raise an eyebrow at me. Please stop.

For a record of my staffing:

Current:

• Coral Springs, ongoing since the close of Realms.

Past:

• Realms Adventurous: Admin/Head, 4 months, Dec 2015-Mar 2016. An experiment and was pretty up front that it was a try at Pendragon in Mu* format. Couldn't continue the experiment, too much OOC drama coming to staff, asking us to fix relations between the players.
• Marvel Untold/Age of Heros: 2 ~2012-~2014, off and on, I help with their wiki, I advise currently for their new incarnation, Marvel Reborn
• Strife in the Age of Steam: 2013 or 2014? short lived steampunk project, only had 3 active players at its ends, and I as head was idle due to work related audits, host closed the server as no one was logging in a month later (I came back four weeks after being gone, hoping to try and relaunch it and boost activity finally, the 3 players left already)
• Faction Head: Redemption., Mid to late 1st decade 2ks Redemption, Czeryn Faction - developed the faction theme from scratch with the three admin. I was not staff, had no relationships with staff (other than knowing one from Dragonlance Mux, and a slight knowing of Paradox from her staff time on the original Shadowrun Mu* (seattle, before Denver as even used in the 3rd ed). I started no drama with staff here, if this is the confusion that people are saying , this place died for other reasons. See the history of Crossroads for a fuller history, part of the falling out there came with staff.
• Judge: Star Wars 1: ~2002-2004'ish?
• Agent Thunder: ~1999-~2001? Erebus Sector - a cross between an old 80s game called Erebus Expanse and Star Wars
  End of line - that's all my experience staffing

If you think I'm someone/staff from some other medieval game or something, by all means ask. But the above list is my history of staffing. I learned coding from the early days of Mus when everyone was given a quota and expected to contribute to the growth of a Mu, not from staffing at lots of places. I started on Star Trek: TOS in the days when a Mu* was seen as an educational environment and they used to bring on actors from TOS for fan Q&A, I was around for George Takei and Leonard Nimoy's visit to the games.

Whoever you have me confused with, I don't know, but please stop slandering me.