@Jaunt said:
I'm still willing to respond civilly to civil conversation. I could go either way, though.
Is your site geared and aimed towards text-based roleplaying, or is it geared towards a specific type?
Edited to add: To be clear, this is what I see as the conflict boiling down to. The claim was that it was the first, and then when it was pointed out that it excludes a large number of folks, that's when the condescending assholeness came out, and now you're saying it's the second.
@Thenomain said:
@Sunny said:
Do you love me yet, @Thenomain? Do you????????
As the only person really replying to anything, I was trying to let the thread just be a series of un-commented posts since there seemed to be nothing left to talk about, so I kind of blame you for all this. "Blame" in the same way that the one person who says "at least it can't get worse" is to blame for the sudden shit-storm that follows.
It really feels like someone decided that something needed done, without any consideration that things were done. This is often the case when someone sees a log of past events and, to them, they are all hot and new and fiery passion takes over, instead of calm sense.
In a small scenario in my head, Jeshin on some OR staff communications board says, "I am so tired of those Soapbox guys and ..." and the knee-jerk white-hat that we Mu*ers can get in our heads took over. "Let me do this for my friend!" Which is cool and noble and all, but has begun so many feuds that never should have been.
I'm probably wrong, but it's one of the few scenarios where I can understand what the hell just happened.
I imagine that's probably exactly what happened. Given the 'you have been so mean to these two, deal with ME now' line and the rabidness straight out of the gate. I think a huge part of my problem with these guys here is that they're taking advantage of this place in a not-good way. They're clearly not interested in participating in our community, whereas people from here (apparently) have gone over and been good community members in theirs. They haven't bothered to extend us the same respect. The only reason they've shown up to the party at all is to tell everyone about their party and how much better it is. It's just an asshole move. Then add to that outright disrespect of some of the biggest contributors to the greater community (as in, not just this board, but the games themselves being built) and it makes me furious.
Do you love me yet, @Thenomain? Do you????????
@Jaunt said:
That's possible. It's also possible that you're mistaken in thinking that cantankerous shitposters like yourself are our audience.
Yeah, complete failure at knowing your audience. I get bitchy and shriek like a harpy when I get furious (I am), but much like categorizing @Thenomain as attempting to be emotionally manipulative, saying that I'm a cantankerous shitposter is incorrect. As I've said repeatedly, I entered this conversation out of patience already because of the behavior of OR's representatives. It has been very poor behavior. Very, very poor behavior.
@Jaunt said:
It's not the place where we prefer to discuss changing the inherent branding and nature of our website. Your inability to understand why this is does not reflect well on your critical thinking skills.
Derp derp derp. Oh, look. First it was 'we never said we weren't here for discussion quote it' and then when it happened, you changed your tune. If this isn't the place you want to discuss your site, then you shouldn't be advertising it here, because what we do is discuss things. Often rather cantankerously.
I doubt that it scores you as many points with @Thenomain as you hope it will, either.
DAMNIT. @Thenomain, why won't you love me? Sorry @Jaunt, I'm just here at this point because you're an annoying prick. Theno has known me long enough that his opinion of me, for better or for worse, is already developed. It's only that part of my disgust here is that if you were interested in engaging this community, you'd have already figured out that the shit you're flinging his way is inaccurate. Wrong. Incorrect. Like the whole 'emotional manipulation' thing.
What you guys are really failing at, here (@Jeshin, @crayon, and @Jaunt) -- probably more than anything else -- is knowing your audience.
PS: I've been mushing longer than you. Does that make me more right?
Maybe this is part of the problem, @Jaunt.
The 'advertisement' board is still a place for discussion, here! Amazing.
And I'm not sure how it's hard to understand that telling a discussion board that you're not interested in discussion can be a little annoying to the people on that board. You're still not paying attention. Are you going to start? Anytime soon?
Also, as per what Theno said...@Jeshin has repeatedly stated that it's a site for us too, that we're included even though we're not spotlighted. So you're now telling us that he lied?
@Jaunt said:
Do you understand the irony of everything that you've posted? C'mon.
I missed the part where I said I cared about being civil. I don't. I finally bothered to speak up when I got sick and tired of the bullshit the representatives of the OR community were spewing. There are plenty of other people here that are willing to engage you because possibly they're saints, I'm not really sure, but I'm not that patient.
Please, show me where Crayon and Jeshin insulted "the way you do things". Use the little quote button. I've read the entire thread twice and don't see it. If you actually support your forum vomit with something substantial (like a direct reference to whatever the fuck it is that you're talking about), then you'll have grown beyond blatant trolling and ad hominem.
Red curtains.
Edited to add: Re: ad hominem. My issue is with your character, I'm not really interested in your position. Soooooooo.
@Jaunt said:
Did we say that we are "preaching to a bunch of atheists?" Did we say that we "are reaching out a hand to savages?" No. Folks here, like you, did.
I can't tell if you're stupid or just a prick. Obviously you didn't say that. That. Is. How. You. Are. Acting.
You put words into our mouths that are completely out of context with our purpose. We don't think that, nor have we said that.
Then stop acting like it.
It's called trolling. You're trolling right now. Stop that. It makes you look bad.
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. I'm not trolling you, I'm trying desperately to get you to stop being an asshole because part of me genuinely believes that you're not trying to be. Optimistic, I know.
Did Crayon or Jeshin act aggressively, or trollishly, here?
Yes.
All they did was advertise and do their best to try to understand your points and respond to the best of their ability.
Bullshit. This is straight up undiluted bullshit.
Try ... very hard ... to understand this. OR's not a "MUD" community. This isn't a MUD vs MUSH issue.
And at what point did I say that it was? This is what I'm talking about when I say y'all are cherry picking shit. This has nothing to do, at all, with mud vs mush. This has everything to do with the MSB community and the OR community, and the people (like you) coming in here and pissing on the floor and then wondering why the hell we're getting pissed off.
Half of our community is made up of MUSHes. Jeshin and Crayon, their home game is a MUSH. Let that sink in for you.
And? Uh. I don't care. I doubt anyone else here cares. OH GOD YOU USE A DIFFERENT CODE BASE WE CANNOT COMMUNICATE. No. I'll repeat myself. This is about representatives from your community coming into our community and being disrespectful assholes. Just like you're being now, teehee.
I'm not attacking the value of this site to you folks.
No, you're just attacking the site itself and the people that use it.
It's obviously valuable, because you have an active community here when many other communities are not active. There's some good discussion happening on this site.
Oh gee, thanks. It's nice to get some validation from someone who is clearly superior to us. Do you even realize what an ass this makes you sound like? We don't need permission from you to find value in things.
However, I don't think that "your best" has been afforded to this thread, universally.
Okay? So? Was it supposed to be?
It's pretty clear that both parties have misconstrued each other's meanings or intentions, and that this site has been vastly more aggressive compared to OR's previous representation in this thread -- that is, until I joined the discussion, because I'm not going to be speaking through any sort of PR filter.
Look. If you come into my house that has red curtains and start talking about how shitty red curtains are, no. You have not said 'you have no taste', but you might as well have. It doesn't matter what the intention was. Let me repeat that. It does not matter what the intention was. You didn't bother to look around at what color the curtains were before you started insulting them. That 'you' refers to all three of you, by the by.
As I stated before, if you feel unclear about certain questions that have been asked or problems that have been posed, post them for me.
So it's our job to prompt you to get you to show us that your community is valuable and you're not a bunch of condescending pricks with absolutely nothing to offer this community? Yeah, no. I don't think you understand how this shit works.
I'll give you a very, very clear answer. Nobody from OR's here to troll. We're here to provide information.
Then quit being a dick.
If you want to roll your eyes at OR, go for it.
Oh gee, thanks. I appreciate it! What would I have done if you told me not to?
If you want to engage in direct discussion, I'll be around.
I wish you wouldn't be. And for the record, that's just me speaking. I'm not some sort of community mouthpiece or anything. I, personally, genuinely wish the three of you would just go away. Go back to your own community and leave us alone. Clearly you're incapable of being civil.
If that discussion is meaningful and friendly and useful, then my response will be too. If not, well, I'm not really a turn-the-other-cheek sort of guy.
But we're supposed to be? Asshole. You might not be "trolling", but you're certainly being an abusive prat.
@ThugHeaven said:
Let me just say as a player of both rpi MUDs and mushes, both communities are equally dismissive of each other. There really might not be a common ground between the two. From what I've seen in this thread, certain points were brought up and weren't really addressed and hostility, passive or naked emerged.
It makes me wonder, why continue to post or update a thread where you're greeted with such opposition? I don't think being all "come at me bro" is going to be that conducive either. This is a derivative of the Snark/Wora board, but I think the questions and points brought up in the beginning were very genuine and were ignored...which brought on the reaction you have now.
So I'm also wondering, if you don't want to discuss what you're advertising and seeing how well it's going, why do it?
This sums it up very well, I think.
These interactions have been incredibly frustrating even to read, with the condescension, the assumptions, peoples' points being either dismissed out of hand as trolling when they were genuine questions or just straight up ignored (the assumption when this happens is that you simply have no answer for the question, or that you're cherry picking what to respond to to try and come off better), the defensiveness, and the continued statement that people are interested in engaging while completely refusing to do so (and that would be what the hell you're all lying about). Telling us how it is is not engaging, it's not dialogue, it's nothing but preaching to a bunch of atheists -- annoying as fuck. It's frustrating enough that it actually makes me angry with the now three of you. To say @Thenomain is just trolling...holy shit. If I could reach through the computer and slap you, I would.
Y'all can keep advertising here. We can keep rolling our eyes. Folks around here (@Thenomain and @surreality in particular, but it's not limited to them) have shown FAR more respect for OR than the representatives have shown the community they are coming in to advertise in. If you don't like us and think we're a bunch of asshole trolls, GO AWAY.
ETA: The thing that y'all seem to be missing is that this is a community that is of value to those of us that participate in it. It's not at all just a trolling/flame board, it's not about bitching, it's not about a lot of the things that the various forums have been about over the years. This is a good community with good people that contribute A LOT to one another, so the whole 'reaching out a hand to the savages' thing -- and yes, that's how a lot of this comes across you fucking pricks -- is beyond irritating.
Edited to add again: This is the MSB crowd's living room. To my knowledge, nobody's gone over there to troll / harass, AND YET you guys keep coming over here to do that to this community. You lose all credibility in that action.
If you're really all that confused by my commentary, go back and read @Thenomain's posts. I'm not doing anything but brief commentary because he's being much more articulate and patient (the patient is the really important part, here) than I'm capable of being.
Y'all have made it clear you aren't interested in actually engaging -- you're interested in talking AT, rather than talking WITH, and you're also completely failing at listening, let alone active listening. Believe it or not, people here aren't generally assholes just for the sake of being assholes, so the fact that you're getting a fairly consistent reaction from this community ought to clue you in that the problem here is you. Seriously.
It's like you read the words but don't retain them at all. It's amazing.
I wish I hadn't bothered to read this thread. All it did was annoy the shit out of me and make me want to stay very, very far away from Optional Realities and everything involved with it. Condescending, lying, generally icky behavior...yeah, no. @Jeshin, @Crayon, I can't imagine you're doing anything to help your cause at all, here.
So sayeth someone from the peanut gallery with not much of a horse in this race.
If you chatted here, it should be in your 'show all chats' thing.
@VulgarKitten said:
@Sunny said:
@VulgarKitten said:
@Sunny Wait, what? Assumptions holy shit. I didn't quit your site for any reason other than I stopped having time to do anything. Had no clue you'd nuked the Catriona bit, which I only took for logging on so you would know who it was. As soon as you established a staff naming convention, I switched over to that. Thank you for showing your true colours. Here I thought I was giving YOU a second chance. Yeesh.
Yeah, okay. Such strange timing, then. It's amazing how that works. No assumptions here darling, just the cold, hard facts. Deny it as you'd like. I never knew you as Catriona, so that's a big fat load of bullshit, too. Do you believe your own shit? You really should consider getting professional help.
ETA: Also, your story sounds great until you realize that you didn't rename, you switched bits. Horse shit.
Believe whatever the fuck you want.
It's not a matter of belief, it's a matter of facts. You have displayed yourself in this very thread to be precisely what I said that you were, just as you were espousing the attitude Surreality was talking about in your very shrieking about her having said it. A comedy routine could not write this better on purpose.
It's like you've thrown yourself on the ground and are screaming and kicking your feet and waving your hands around yelling, "I AM NOT HAVING A TEMPER TANTRUM!" Really. That's how you're coming across right now. How you've come across every time the switch flips and you go nutters. I know it sounds snotty, but I really do recommend talking to a professional: the problem in your life is you.
@VulgarKitten said:
@Sunny Wait, what? Assumptions holy shit. I didn't quit your site for any reason other than I stopped having time to do anything. Had no clue you'd nuked the Catriona bit, which I only took for logging on so you would know who it was. As soon as you established a staff naming convention, I switched over to that. Thank you for showing your true colours. Here I thought I was giving YOU a second chance. Yeesh.
Yeah, okay. Such strange timing, then. It's amazing how that works. No assumptions here darling, just the cold, hard facts. Deny it as you'd like. I never knew you as Catriona, so that's a big fat load of bullshit, too. Do you believe your own shit? You really should consider getting professional help.
ETA: Also, your story sounds great until you realize that you didn't rename, you switched bits. Horse shit.
There's a difference between reserving a name on one site and running around to games that aren't even built to reserve a name JUST IN CASE you're going to play there someday.
@VulgarKitten said:
Wait. Tell me more! Could you expand on this even further?? With more assumption?
Seconding @Surreality here. Man, you quit being involved on my site because I nuked your Catriona bit. On a site that had just started work, you felt the need to reserve that name. You're a fucking crazy-ass bitch, if your behavior is any indication. You were when we first met, I gave you a second chance, you proved VERY promptly that it was unwarranted. You're no Spider, but the only reason is that you're not effective. Surreality is dead on here, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see it.
Thanks for playing, though.
Edited to add: I wouldn't worry about it too much, Surreality. @VulgarKitten chooses a female that she thinks is 'popular' and attacks them to give herself more social standing. I've seen her attempt to pull this same bull on at least 3 games.
I don't really know what to say. Thanks for the apology, I guess. I don't hate you or anything, but like I've said before, the anger is going to flare up sometimes. I don't think I'll ever be able to trust you on a personal level ever again. That is what it is, and it's just one of the consequences of your actions. I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.