Posts made by Sunny

@bananerz

I am focusing on the topic. Your suggestion doesn't work for the same reason that the condemns didn't work. This information is relevant and important. You're not considering a major angle of importance, and this is a problem.

Like, the problem isn't maliciousness, it's thoughtlessness. The exact same thoughtlessness you're displaying by claiming that staff would just need to punish the problems, without bothering to consider that it's not the outliers or the extremes that are the issue. Your reaction to criticism on this topic is the EXACT same problem that existed with condemn: thoughtlessness as to how this might impact the people RECEIVING the messages.

@bananerz

Are you intentionally ignoring the problems that were mentioned regarding this type of thing?

It's not about people not being thick-skinned or unable to be an adult on the receiving end of this, but individual cases aren't particularly something reportable, either. You can't discipline 40 different people for sending a 'you suck' message. There's nothing to 'nip in the bud' because it's just people not thinking on a wide scale, and they think its Perfectly Reasonable to get in on spitting in somebody's face. Their character would! It doesn't matter that 40 other people did it, too. And that's. Not. Fun.

When you get spit on for the 80th time just because that 80th person had to get their hit on you, too...it gets to be a little much. Nobody thinks about the fun of the target when they use systems like that, at all. It was used as a way to get an easy cheap shot, and I was really happy to see them go. It wasn't a case of people being thin skinned, it was a scale issue.

@arkandel

I understand your perspective, I just don't agree with it. It makes perfect sense, but I also think that it's wrong.

Problem players -- actual problem players -- should be dealt with as such. The things that you're describing need disciplinary actions, and cannot be solved by addressing the problem of mismatched expectations. Their problem isn't mismatched expectations, their problem is that they're jerks, so while they might occur in the same fashion, they are two very different things with very different solutions. Addressing the edge cases in this scenario ends up meaning you don't actually address the real problem for the reasonable people on your game.

To try and bring the question back around: how do we deal with mismatched expectations between reasonable players and reasonable staff?

You have laid out your policies and your game, and you are set up to play the game in a certain fashion. You want to tell epic sweeping stories and you're really just not interested in providing any support for extensive gear differences. To some of your players (who are otherwise reasonable!), it seems to be common sense that if you're telling an epic sweeping story, you have GOT to have epic gear to go with it, right? Like, how do you kill a dragon without a dragonslayer sword?!

What are some tricks and tips people use to try and bring these things together? Do we post posts? Have individual conversations to try and bring everyone to the same page? How can we deal with this sort of misalignment effectively, and how do we minimize the appearance of this problem in the first place?

@arkandel said in Managing Player Expectations:

@sunny said in Managing Player Expectations:

Why is it so hard to believe that someone might want BOTH types of RP?

It isn't. In my example though I was referring specifically to someone who wants mostly TS, and doesn't intend to play the overall game either way.

Let's not let TS distract us here though (since it tends to take over conversations - perhaps I shouldn't have used it at all) since it was just one example.

It feels like to me that it was an example of a false principle to begin with, though. Managing player expectations is one thing. Dealing with the VERY SMALL number of people who are interested only in X type of RP is another. Managing healthy expectations is one conversation. Dealing with a tiny population of problem players is something different. I don't really feel like focusing on people who are only after one kind of RP is productive, as they aren't the problem being discussed here. They are SO RARE as to nearly be unicorns, really. But they're often trotted out all the same whenever 'player expectations' comes up, as if these specific people are what the conversation is about.

@arkandel said in Managing Player Expectations:

My only explanation (other than accounting for jerks) is poor self awareness. I.e. players who want mainly TS but tell themselves they're after metaplot, depth and all the other trappings of a non-TS game so they log on those to look for the former anyway.

Why is it so hard to believe that someone might want BOTH types of RP?

Read all the words in my email, people. ALL THE DUCKING WORDS. EVERY ONE OF THEM IS IMPORTANT. I could understand if I had written walls of text or something but it was like 3 sentences long. READ IT!

@roz

I had an access database for my old character. ^^

@thenomain said in Earning stuff:

Ashes to Ashes is one infamous small-staff game where the behavior was planned.

Not to say that the bad behavior wasn't bad or planned or whatnot, but we had 26 staffers on Ashes for a good stretch of time. I would in no way consider our problems as relevant on the 'small staff' spectrum of things.

@zombiegenesis

I would please like it if you would let people come and play.

@coin said in Interest Check - Armageddon MUX (A Unisystem Urban Horror Game):

@sunny said in Interest Check - Armageddon MUX (A Unisystem Urban Horror Game):

I would be interested in this.

Saying "Unisystem" is like saying "Buffygame" around @Sunny even if she knows it's not gonna actually be a Buffygame. It's hilarious to watch. >.>

Somebody WILL make a Buffy game eventually. This is pretty cool anyway though, and I do just love Unisystem!

I would be interested in this.

The more it's talked about the worse it sounds. Also, discipline on a game is part of running a game, so ideas/discussion regarding discipline are ideas/discussion related to running a game. Thus, definitely the worst idea I have ever heard for running a game.

I am also horrified by the court of public opinion. That is quite possibly the worst idea in the history of ideas for running a game that I have ever heard.

@cobaltasaurus said in Let's talk about TS.:

@roz said in Let's talk about TS.:

@magee101 said in Let's talk about TS.:

@cobaltasaurus thats why I bring them both forward and figure out who what. I never said ban, banning is not the only punishment (there are plenty of IC things that would not take kindly to that sort of Hubris wink wink). You also cannot just on the first tume do anything.

YOU SURE CAN if the offense is clear enough and creepy enough.

Gonna go with @Roz here... If someone starts trying to use magic powers to rape someone on Sacred Seed, I'mma let @Coin bounce them out the door so fast their head spins.

Uh, yeah. Absolutely. Door. First offense. Bye. There is no justifying this shit.

@ominous I find the implication that I don't appreciate logic or internal consistency offensive; I do. However, things can be this and also fun. Of course different strokes for different folks, but the discussion is regarding the creation of a world for playing characters in, and considering that this a completely alien culture and history and people and world, logic in relation to real world earth scenarios and governments has very little relevance. Context and cultural history and all of these things can be different, ending up not creating a world that looks like this one. That can be consistent...and also fun.

This thread of stifling upward mobility does not sound at all fun to play through.

ETA: Like, why would you build a system on purpose to be as not fun as possible? That seems counter-intuitive to the point.

@cobaltasaurus said in Let's talk about TS.:

@arkandel Joking aside, I completely agree here. If I was on a game where staff let that happen, I'd be out the door in a heartbeat.

Me too.

@cobaltasaurus said in Let's talk about TS.:

Thanks, @Carex you're during this thread into #WhyI'mDoneWithWoD.

I like this hashtag. You should start a thread so I can link that to that hashtag in my sig. Yep.