@Kanye-Qwest said in The Shame Game:
@ixokai So, satisfying a curiosity or asking someone to explain the reason they did something is caring? Sure, to a degree. But not what it seemed like you meant by "caring" earlier in the thread.
You're just the most recent time I've noticed people taking issue with their number getting bigger or smaller and I just don't understand it.
@Kanye-Qwest said in The Shame Game:
@ixokai Pretty sure Pandora doesn't give half a shit if you downvote her every post. I certainly don't...care if you downvote her every post.
But no, really, does anyone care?
http://musoapbox.net/topic/988/the-100-the-mush/240
This seems like caring. Not like, a lot, but caring.
@silentsophia Hey I'm not saying people shouldn't downvote. I'm asking why the hell anyone cares if they're downvoted.
Its a silly number on the internet. It doesn't actually silence anyone from saying whatever stupid thing they want to say.
@Pandora said in The Shame Game:
The Shame Game on MSB is pretty amusing as long as you don't take it too seriously. I participated in a thread in the Hog Pit and through nothing but trying to explain my points of view wound up at like -124 reputation. Having a differing opinion on MSB is something to be ashamed of then?
I really don't get why people care that this internet number goes up or down, or it their post's number goes up or down, but evidentially this internet number matters to people.
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@Coin You're choosing to miss my original point then:
If the FC's are 'Featured' /and/ more 'Powerful' than any OC can EVER be, then what is the point of trying to be involved as an OC?
First, "Featured" doesn't really mean anything. Second, who says FC's are more powerful then OC's can EVER be. That's simply a question of what staff will approve. I haven't asked the 1963 staff that question specifically but nothing I've seen suggests they wouldn't accept an OC that matched FC's in power.
EDIT to add: You later argue its not power, its relevance (but damn is your argument wandering from place to place as you try to make it--) to which I say my 25 years of MUSHing experience says relevance has a lot more to do with the player then the character, time and time again. Because a player capable of writing a fun, engaging character who adds to the environment (and this does not mean 'positive, happy, friendly') in a way that is responsive, is the sort of player whose characters end up mattering most. No matter their power level.
@Lithium said in The 100: The Mush:
@ixokai You are being awfully defensive. We as a whole on this board are very open about our feelings and perceptions in general.
Just because we disagree with you doesn't necessarily mean we are attacking you. We do have concerns, and we voice them, you don't. That's fine. The way you keep coming back to defend things is kind of odd all things considered.
Uh.. right. You coming back to express your concerns, that's normal. Me, though, I come back to express my experiences, that's odd.
You're not seeing the problem with that?
Seriously? XD
@Miss-Demeanor said in The 100: The Mush:
@ixokai And I will apologize to you because I think I have you confused with someone else. I still stand by my opinion and what I saw on the game, but I was definitely a bit harsher to you as I thought you were one of the staffers. And I'm still a little... peeved at the constant confusion. I get it the first time, you haven't seen it yourself so you're understandably a bit puzzled. After that, however, continuing to express confusion simply leads me to believe you haven't really been reading since you still seem confused that people are upset. We're saying WHY we're upset, we've been saying that for pages now. There shouldn't really be any confusion left as to why.
There's plenty of confusion-- there's no specifics. Random, anonymous people have made vague claims of... things. Badness. Okay? I haven't seen anything like that. How am I to interpret this? I live in a magic bubble of happy goodness (even though my character is quite prone to getting into fights?)?
Yes. I DO hear you. You are upset. I simply see absolutely nothing like that. I have no idea how to deal with this reality you experience with this active, constant hostiltiy, and the reality I experience when I go randomly IC at random times and play with different people constantly, and don't experience it.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying there's something going on here that isn't as simple as, "everyone is hostile", because I can factually declare: everyone isn't hostile.
I don't understand what it is that put you in a place where all you experienced is hostility. I'm open to talking about it. But what I'm hearing is, vague declarations of: everyone is hostile.
I just honestly don't know how to deal with that. Its you saying the sun is green. I don't deny that you see a green sun, but since I don't, what -- seriously, //what// -- do you expect as a response? If you were more specific I might be able to respond more reasonably, but right now, you're just describing an environment that I've never experienced.
And dismissing my own experience as an attack against yours, which is not exactly fair.
@Miss-Demeanor said in The 100: The Mush:
@ixokai You have players, right here. People that are on your game right now, or were recently (not me, I jumped ship a while back). You could start there. You keep acting confused and saying 'I don't see it'. That just upsets someone already upset even further. Its like saying that because you don't have a problem, the problem doesn't exist. Instead of continuing to go 'I don't get it', why not ask any of them what they think a possible solution could be? Poll your players. Talk to them.
Post a bboard telling everyone that you want to get their opinion of the game thus far. Give them the option to do it anonymously if that exists. Otherwise assure them that nobody will be penalized for their opinion but that you're simply seeking to gauge the current standing of the game. Ask them for solutions to any problems they bring up. Ask for their opinion. This sort of thing is important in every game, but doubly so in games where PVP, conflict, and drama are built into the story.
I feel there is some confusion here.
I am not staff at the 100 MUSH. I have never been. I will NOT be. I am a player. Yes, I'm a HAPPY player, but I'm a player. I am not going to start going around polling players. The idea is absurd on its face, as far as I'm concerned. I do talk to a lot of people. I've heard some complaints from some: and notably, those have nothing to do with these complaints made in this thread. They are, in more then one incidence, almost diametrically opposed. But either way, dear god, I am not going to go about trying to try to be the spokesman of the game and gather everyone's information and talk for them and to them.
I can share only my own experiences. You have yours. You seem to think my experience invalidates yours, and that makes you upset, but you don't seem to see the reverse effect. Your experience is simply alien to mine. I'm sorry about that.
I've not once hid who I am on game, and if anyone -- //anyone// -- wants to discuss with me their problems in game, I'm happy to listen to them. If someone has a problem with my character, I'm happy to engage them. But the idea that I should take it upon myself to go looking for trouble is insane.
What we have here is anonymous voices speaking in a vacuum without context. I have no idea what you've experienced. I'm not saying its worng, I'm saying I haven't experienced it. Why is your experience more valid then my own? If you've got a problem, believe me, I'm open to talking about it, especially if it has to do with one of my characters. Neither are always nice, but I seek to engage people in a way that's fun, if not always happy-huggy. And I don't ever want to force people into things that aren't fun, so if someone has issue, I'll try to arrange to take that into account.
But. Dear god. This idea I'm gonna start being the spokesman for the game. No. Not gonna happen. I speak for myself, my own experiences, and my own characters. That's IT.
@Lithium said in The 100: The Mush:
@Admiral If we knew their character name, we might be able to confirm or deny that.
Cameron the Delinquent, and Que the grounder. I have never made any attempt at hiding who I am.
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
I'm assuming it because out of the nearly 30 years I've been MU'in it's a constant. I've personally never seen a single game not end up like that when it has FC's from the comic books. FC's become important because they /are/ FC's, they are 'Feature Characters' so they are 'Featured' more than OC's are. OC's aren't Features.
I've no idea. This isn't a genre I have ever really played. I played one super-ish game before, it was OC only, a long time ago. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find it weird to be prejudging things just... because you think so.
I mean, every WOD game (my usual genre) ever is going to go down into a burning wreck of drama and megalomaniacal trauma. 25 years(you beat me by a few, gotcha) of MU'ing tells me that. But I still play on them from time to time and they are sometimes quite fun and defy this expectation. And then they do something else insanely stupid that blows them up.
More then one has surprised me though and not done what's been done before. Deciding its gonna fail before it actually fails seems weird to me.
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@ixokai Because it's the one constant I've seen with every comic book game that allows FC character's. FC's always end up more important/powerful than the OC's.
So you're just assuming this based on nothing at all to do with this game specifically?
@Miss-Demeanor said in The 100: The Mush:
@ixokai Yes, these are serious, real problems that people are or have had with this exact game. You may want to address them rather than continue the befuddled act.
My point is, how can I address something I've never seen? I join random scenes randomly. I have no select group of people I RP with (except the person my PC is dating), I RP both as a Grounder as a Delinquent, I jump at all chances at plot and this invovles a wide range of characters (who my PC likes, dislikes, is indiffernet to) and this massive everyone's-hostile-all-the-time is something I've never encountered.
I'm not saying you're lying, but I have no idea what you're talking about.
@Lithium said in Marvel: 1963:
@tangent Kudo's for putting it in a different time zone. To bad it's going to be the same mess of FC's > OC's that all these games turn into.
Why do you say that?
Man. There's a couple people being real verbose about how actively hostile everything is on this game and...
I don't really even have the words. Okay? Sorry? I mean, what?
Are these like serious, specific complaints about this specific game for real? Or are you channelling past experience and making a point?
Because, whoa. The level of constant malevolence and antagonism you're talking about is mystifying to me. I don't read ALL the logs, but I'm in all kinds of scenes and read many of them, and... what?
@Kanye-Qwest said in The 100: The Mush:
@ixokai said in The 100: The Mush:
The thing with the 100 is... almost none of these people are strangers. Now they don't all know eachother great, but they aren't strangers. You're new to the game, but your character has been around for the last two weeks, everyone probably knows his or her name, some details. Depending on how long they were boxed, they might know more.
I tend to have my character assume a certain familiarity with new people, and just try to work them in as if we at least passingly know eachother. No one's a stranger here.
So are you being extra nice OOC to make sure the players involved are ok with your antagonism?
I don't quite see it as extra nice. I like to think I'm just nice in general. I might be wrong. Who can see themselves accurately? But, I generally try not to be an ass OOC, because who has that kind of energy to waste their life being a jerk when you're trying to have fun in a hobby? Man, I don't.
I'm also not sure I see my character as an antagonist. He doesn't like some people for various reasons, but he gets along just fine with some others. Some he likes personally but they can't just see eye to eye on things so argue at almost the slightest provocation. They're a diverse bunch in both groups and if I'm in a clique I wasn't aware of it. A clique sounds way more organized then anything I've seen on the game.
Yesterday was a bit different because it was a pretty brutal scene; the Delinquents killed one of their own for murder. A lot of people had highly charged reactions to this. The most antagonistic I thought my character got was that he was utterly unsympathetic to those who were emotionally upset by the outcome. He coolly dismissed ideas like a need to prepare the body for burial by brushing her hair, cleaning her face. Niceties that he found trivial and irrelevant since they were about to dig a hole and put her in the dirt. Was that antagonistic? I can see how someone could think so and not like my character as a result. Totally a fair reaction. But there's reasons for his behavior and its not a desire to be an antagonist OOCly (or ICly for that matter).
I don't know. This thread has veered into a weird place where it seems people are expecting people who do not nice things IC to justify their not niceness. Since when was that a thing?
@GangOfDolls said in The 100: The Mush:
Oh, yeah, I do see your point. And it may just be a matter of play style. I've played some major dicks in my time (as have we all) but as I get older and crankier, I do find that sometimes its not always in the interest of a game or a character to lead with uncompromisingly aggressive behavior IC when the PC on the receiving end hasn't done much other than be there at the wrong place, wrong time. Like sensibly, even people who very traumatized and behaviorally stunted, do not as a whole walk up and emotionally roundhouse kick a total stranger for just sort of standing there.
Provoking that kind of reaction is another thing, totally.
There's a charisma and chemical alchemy in a way to playing a PC who goes out of their way to be mean to strangers usually because their approach is very nuanced and you see the humanity underneath this PC that makes them charming and ultimately relatable. And I think for some players, how they think their PC comes across and how they really come across, are very different and they don't see it.
TL;DR: Dealing with a jerk necessitates an upside to dealing with a jerk. No upside? People will avoid your jerk.
Hmm. One thing I notice you mentioned twice is -- stranger.
The thing with the 100 is... almost none of these people are strangers. Now they don't all know eachother great, but they aren't strangers. You're new to the game, but your character has been around for the last two weeks, everyone probably knows his or her name, some details. Depending on how long they were boxed, they might know more.
I tend to have my character assume a certain familiarity with new people, and just try to work them in as if we at least passingly know eachother. No one's a stranger here.
@GangOfDolls said in The 100: The Mush:
But there are a number of PCs who are often not even passingly nice to solo PCs who aren't established/in a group/generally new players. It's one thing to be petulant teenager who is knows everything because there are some who do that will excellent, slouchy aplomb. But I seem to keep running into PCs who are kind of relentlessly horrible to other PCs just because they can.
Heh. I wonder if mine is one of these 
Cuz tonight my character was kinda horrible at someone who is fairly new. Not because she's new (she's been around forever, ICly), but just... he reacts to stress in a certain way and is not exactly a pleasant guy during such episodes. And watching a kid get her throat cut partly cuz he voted her guilty put him into a bad place, mentally. When he's in a bad place his emotions shut down and he turns into a cold prick.
That said:
The upside is that most players are very nice OOCly but I get the sense there isn't a lot of self-awareness in finding a balance between cooperative play and being overly exacting on their interpretation of their character of being a mouth foaming rabid dipshit. But early days, so I'm hoping most players who are doing this will wear themselves or see themselves out.
I'm not sure I find this a reasonable expectation to have. Not all characters are going to be kind to each-other, or like each-other, or get along. I don't know if it has anything to do with people being established or in a group or not -- I don't know that we've ever had a group app that I've seen, and have had some characters show up and immediately got along with mine, and some, and immediately didn't.
Its personality conflict and IMHO its a good thing on this game. One of the most fun things about the game to me is the ongoing fued between my character and @kestrel. I like it because there's not really an intrinsic reason why they have to hate each-other. They aren't the Hatfields and the McCoys. They have some differences politically, but they are not as far apart as they seem. But do they hate each-other.
Its great.
@Gingerlily said in RL Anger:
I have the most annoying insomnia, and when I can sleep, I am the lightest sleeper ever so I just wake up. It fills me with RL Anger, especially anger towards people who can sleep. Like my husband, who just saunters into bed two hours after I go to bed, while I am still struggling, tossing and turning, and within FIFTEEN SECONDS of his head hitting the pillow is just snoring away happily. He's the worst, right? Grrrr. It's 1:15 am, I've been trying to sleep for an hour, and he's due any minute to just waltz in here and instantly crash.
People who fall asleep quickly are terrible people.
I don't exactly fall asleep quickly, but its not bad. My thing is.. if I'm asleep, and I wake up? For any reason at all? I do not go back to sleep. If my roommate is doing something stupid at 4am and wakes me up, if I've been asleep for one, two, three, four, or five hours, it doesn't matter. I'm awake then. That's it. I can try for an afternoon nap, but besides that? I'm awake.
And its not that I'm awake and alert. I'm awake and exhausted, tired, with difficulty processing. But sleep after I wake up is impossible.
@faraday said in How does a Mu* become successful?:
@Ganymede said in How does a Mu* become successful?:
It is easier, simpler, and more sensible to require approval before hitting the Grid. As @surreality said, many games allow for "provisional RP" in OOC areas...
I understand what you're saying. Personally I don't see a big difference between provisional RP in OOC areas with consenting folks, and provisional RP in IC areas with consenting folks. Either way, you're risking retcon -- not only for the parties involved, but also for ripple effects if there was anything significant done during those provisional scenes.
And yeah, you can say "don't do anything significant" but it's a slippery slope. Bob and Harry RP a scene while Harry's awaiting approval. Bob tells Suzy about it. Suzy tells Harvey about it. Then it gets retconned and you have to deal with the ripples.
And I know not everyone agrees, but to me? Retcons are the ultimate in evil necessities. They should never happen and you should do everything possible to make sure they never happen. But if you must use them you must use them.
But that's why I'm very skeevy about the idea of "provisional RP".