@Pyrephox There was an old TT RPG that had a system similar to that, in that the baseline attribute was 0 and you got modifiers based on race etc.
I think it was called Talislanta. I remember it having a /huge/ chunk of races, and being unusual in that every race in the game, was available as a PC iirc. Not sure why it died, but I'm pretty sure it's out of print now.
@ThatGuyThere said in Character Rosters:
@Coin
Well you are completely free to ignore me, there is even a helpful thread on the code magic that would allow you to do that.
As to the issue that started this long digression, I can see how it could be hard to parse, however I know that the only way I would catch that without it being pointed out my someone else would be to wait do something else so my mind is not focused on the topic then come back. If you think I will do that for every post, you are crazy.
If only we had a way to actually ignore people that was easily done and didn't require code work!
(Ducks and runs before she can be hit with flying tomatoes and/or any other objects etc)
@Coin said in Character Rosters:
I honestly never understood the hate-on for roster characters. They are an addition to the game, they don't subtract anything substantial in my experience. I don't know of any games thata re exclusively roster?
My experiences with Roster character games have been the opposite. Unless you were a rostered character created by the staff you couldn't really succeed at much in the game. The character was inherently weaker than the roster characters and in some cases was forced into a family you didn't even want just like a rostered character anyway.
I don't mind there being a roster of characters that can be picked up and played, and dropped if desired, or sacrificed to Cthulhu or whatnot, just so long as there's not a bevy of roster characters who are more powerful than people's own ideas.
I want to play /my/ character, not someone else's.
I actually think the best time to play in Thedas would be during the rebellion or just after it, when there were still a number of Grey Warden's running around before they were killed off, you wouldn't have to worry about blights and qunari incursions really.
It'd be a lot easier to fit in various types of RP, political, economical, adventuring as the kingdom tried to make itself right after being occupied by a foreign army for so long.
Trying to set inside any of the games is inherently limiting imho.
Origins you have the Blight.
2 you have the Qunari
Inquisition you have the torn veil etc.
Huge events like this are great for single player you are the protagonist hero story, but they often become problems when you have a dozen people or scores of people who feel they are the protagonist, and nobody else is.
Or that's what they want.
@DnvnQuinn Pretty much anything can be converted to Fallout. You could even use d20 if you wanted with only a little conversion.
Anything that can handle a generic world: d20, Savage Worlds, WoD, Hero, FATE, etc, can be used for Fallout with relative ease all things considered some might be closer to the system in the games but I don't think that a pure transport would really work well, mostly because I dislike level based xp systems.
Also: Setting might be neat, I'd play it, just would get really weird seeing people throw occasional spanish words into text, when I assume we'd all be speaking spanish or portuguese to begin with 
You are both correct, in fact I happen to share those opinions.
I personally put a lot of faith in various things /but/ that is /me/. That is /you/.
Clearly other people do /not/ put that same faith into those same values.
All our opinions mean, is what is right for us. Everything else is trying to adjust the social norm and create social change which requires changing a lot of opinions. It's definitely not easy but this brings us back full circle:
I do not experience shame for my opinions. Those who /do/ however, must believe their opinions are somehow flawed. Those who do /not/ however, shame will do nothing because they don't experience it.
sighs And you missed my point entirely @deadculture. My point is that it doesn't matter where the skill set comes from, just that they have the capability to do the job with the skills they have.
Solo's and Street Samurai's are physical operatives of high caliber. It is their specialization, their focus, that's it. In ShadowRun a lot more 'Archetypes' exist than in CP2020, not even counting the magical ones... at least depending on the edition of SR involved.
What does a solo do? They kick ass physically, are faster than everyone else, and are bad asses.
What does a Street Samurai do? That's my point.
Any differences between the two are more about customization options to individualize the character rather than making them two different types of characters.
So I was on my way home from work this morning, sitting at a red light, and a fucking city BUS clips my mirror and takes the whole thing off essentially hanging there by the cord used to power the tiny motor that lets you adjust the mirror from inside the car.
I follow the bus over and it finally stops, I get out, head over to the driver and he tells me that police and such are already on the way, so I am like cool, no problem.
Well the claims adjustor for the city bus shows up well before the police do, and we're documenting the damage and such while we wait, conversing, no drama when the bus driver walks over to look at the car as the claims guy is asking me if there's any additional damage.
I tell the guy: No, I think he just clipped my mirror and took it off.
Bus Driver: No there isn't any other fucking damage!
Me: I never said there was. I was just saying I think you just clipped-
Bus Driver: I didn't do any other damage!
Me: ...
I didn't hit you mother fucker, you hit me, you broke my mirror, and now the mirror is ruining my fucking paint job. The /only/ reason I went with the no police report option, is because /you hitting me/ fucks with my CDL license and insurance rates.
Meanwhile the cop is saying that this happens ALL THE TIME at that intersection where I was waiting. WTF. IF it happens all the time change the mother fucking bus route or higher better drivers who don't try to force their way past cars!
@Thenomain I must have missed the 'accepted truths' part because what I read, was people explaining what made an opinion have value... to /them/.
Which is fine.
Just looking at things differently.
@Thenomain I'm more just responding to people who are or were trying to sway me to their opinion.
Natural discourse, debate, that sort of thing.
I have no emotional attachment to this other than trying to explain what I mean but I am apparently not very good at it around these parts.
@deadculture said in Shadowrun: Modern:
@Lithium I think the tropes are very different. You see that Molly's jobs tend to be less formal (in that there's no severance package, no corporations but people hiring her) whereas Turner seems to get himself jobs thanks to contacts in corporations here and there. He tries to honor his contracts, but evidently in the span of the novel he starred, that didn't turn out so well.
Also the choice in weapons and training reflects that. Turner is a mercenary, but he has military training and background. Molly has knowledge and training from the streets.
Ummm I disagree with everything you just said.
Street Samurai's can come from many different backgrounds. It's a general archetype that can be further customized on a per character basis.
I also would /love/ to see a Street Samurai get a severance package, and be hired by more than a Johnson but at that point they would become Company (Wo)Men archetype as far as SR is concerned.
Basically, just because Molly chose to be hired by people, doesn't mean every Solo is hired only by individual people.
@Coin said in Attributes or No?:
@Lithium said in Attributes or No?:
I am a fan of them but I've been quantifying them more objectively.
You have physical, mental, and social categories and then in each three categories you have three traits or attributes that are Power, Finesse, and Resistance.
The skills are also broken down via mental, social, and physical but are used by the skills differently depending on what you want to do:
Brute force punch or slam or grapple: Physical Power + Unarmed Combat. To try and dodge that same attack it'd be Physical Finesse + Unarmed Combat.
I am trying to avoid power skills like 'Dodge' because honestly avoiding getting punched is a lot different than avoiding being shot, but if you are good with guns then you know how to also take cover and avoid being shot with guns as most people aren't going to be dodging bullets due to relativistic speed differences between a person and a bullet for example.
If you were to use a martial arts attack it'd be Physical Finesse + unarmed combat rather than power.
So far it's working out pretty reasonably in my testing.
This is basically what CofD does. Those are even the same cross categories. I mean, you're obviously aware of it, but you may want to be wary of it, as well.
Also, why is "martial arts" Finesse and Unarmed Combat isn't (or vice versa)? There are a lot of martial arts that I would argue are a lot more about physical power than finesse. If you're going to go into that sort of separation, you might benefit from letting people decide whether their unarmed combat is Power- or Finesse-based from the get go and applying different penalties in that vein.
Why is martial arts finesse? Because that's how it's defined arbitrarily by me, the system make on the game. Are there martial arts that use raw power over finesse? Sure, maybe, but I am not trying to quantify every individual martial art. If someone wants to be highly skilled at a more brute form of unarmed combat then they'd use Power instead of Finesse. I don't really see that as a problem. You use whatever stat that makes sense for how your using the skill.
@Kanye-Qwest said in The Shame Game:
@Lithium Not being practiced at something, or choosing not to do it != incapable of using reason.
I prefer to think of them as incapable of using it rather than being so silly as to choose not to use it.
@Ganymede I never said I didn't value your opinion. You're quite in error there I value your opinion greatly.
I am just saying that opinions in and of themselves have only as much value as an individual places on it.
Different things make an opinion valuable to different people and the only thing we can say, is what makes an opinion valuable to /us/. We don't get to speak for other people. That is self-righteousness on an epic scale, the kind of thing that suggests they know better than anyone else what is best for everyone else.
It's the same kind of thinking that allows for some very dark pieces of humanity.
@Thenomain I find boiling everything down to opinion to be dangerous as well. I'm not talking about doing so but using examples where people are taking facts, and citing them as opinions.
ie. Rush Limbaugh's opinions do not matter, at all, to me. They have zero value. Another given person might value his opinion greatly. So who is right, who is wrong? Does that opinion have any value truly?
Not to me. That's all I can say.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all smell about the same.
I am a fan of them but I've been quantifying them more objectively.
You have physical, mental, and social categories and then in each three categories you have three traits or attributes that are Power, Finesse, and Resistance.
The skills are also broken down via mental, social, and physical but are used by the skills differently depending on what you want to do:
Brute force punch or slam or grapple: Physical Power + Unarmed Combat. To try and dodge that same attack it'd be Physical Finesse + Unarmed Combat.
I am trying to avoid power skills like 'Dodge' because honestly avoiding getting punched is a lot different than avoiding being shot, but if you are good with guns then you know how to also take cover and avoid being shot with guns as most people aren't going to be dodging bullets due to relativistic speed differences between a person and a bullet for example.
If you were to use a martial arts attack it'd be Physical Finesse + unarmed combat rather than power.
So far it's working out pretty reasonably in my testing.
No I am being utterly serious.
We have schools which are refusing to teach natural selection and other sciences. We have schools that are cutting art and music classes. We have people who are refusing to see any other point but their own when it comes to simple life choices. We have politicians who are making it illegal to be comfortable to go to the bathroom if you're remotely different from the 'norm' regardless of the damage it does. In the news currently there is a father who says that '20 minutes of action' has ruined his sons life, when it was 20 minutes of sexual assault on a passed out drunk woman. We have presidential candidates who's opinion is that Global Warming is a myth, and yet, they site Global Warming as a reason to build a seawall to protect their golf courses.
The average IQ is around 100. People as a whole /cannot/ think objectively, they don't have the capability or the desire to.
If there are any who buck that trend and can do these things, it's us.
We are not the majority.
There is a saying that was true when it was first said, and it's still true today.
A person can be smart.
People are stupid.
The value of an opinion, which is what started all this, is individual. That the general 'you' value one opinion higher than someone else does not intrinsically make that opinion more valuable, or have more merit, because it's still just an opinion and everyone is free to form their own opinions or assign their own weight/value to an opinion.
'Your' opinion is any better, or worse, than anyone else's to them.
Thus they all have equal value in the grand scheme of things.
Clearly some of you here do not value my opinion, no matter what 'reasoning' I use to justify it because you disagree with it. Which entirely proves my point.
@deadculture said in Shadowrun: Modern:
Molly was a Street Samurai/razorgirl. There was the dude that rescued Angie in [redacted].
The concept of Solo and Street Samurai/Razorgirl/boy whatever is very similar. in cp2020 Solo's just got insane initiative cuz Solo. In ShadowRun it was cuz 'Wires.
@Kanye-Qwest said in The Shame Game:
Outside of some (really tragic) edge cases...you don't think everyone can use reason?
No I do not.
See Public Education and Politics for examples for why.
I don't see why we need to come up with a consensus on MW at all. Just like we've not come to a consensus about what code to use. Some like MUX, some like Penn, some like Rhost, etc etc.
Some people like MW, I do, I know how to set it up, use it, and my wiki staffer likes using it.
I host my wiki and my game on the same site without a problem.
So I would say use what is best for you, or what you enjoy using the most, because until now I'd never even cared about what is used for the wiki so long as the adds are not horrible.
@Vorpal said in The Shame Game:
@Lithium said in The Shame Game:
@Ganymede This is a fallacy.
We can /try/ to not weigh opinions based on our feelings but that's a lot harder than it seems, and I'm willing to say that I believe most people can't do it. Not really. See Trump.
I agree with @Ganymede in this- I think you are wrong, to an extent. Rational thought and objectivity aren't automatic, they are volitional. Everybody can, in fact, do it. Most choose not to, mostly out of habit. Being rational is not something that comes automatically, it's something that has to be forced and practiced on habit consciously - excellence is not an act, but a habit.
Actually no. Not everyone can.
I get this all the time from my girlfriend and family, I sometimes assume that /everyone/ should be able to do the things I do, because they are easy to me. I just don't get how some people find Algebra is hard when I did higher tier math in my head.
Not everyone /can/ do the things you do, and I think that we, as a hobby group, probably do a lot of things easily that other people can't imagine. Like creative writing. Like thinking like other people do. Like taking the time to consider different view points.
Because we are Role-Players. We are Gamers. We get into the heads of other people all the time.
Most people don't do that. Most people can't fathom doing it. This is why most people cannot be objective when it comes to weighing opinions.
@Ganymede said in The Shame Game:
And, yes, that's why we have Trump. Because many people are making judgments based solely on emotions. And their opinions are ignorant and therefore worthless.
In your opinion. Which is worthless to people who disagree with you. Therefor your opinion has the same weight as everyone elses.