Posts made by Lithium

Gods above and below... I have never in my life seen so much vitriol against education in my life. It's like people are content to swim in the muck with the bottom feeders throwing feces and make believe instead of just have a discussion.

Think what you want. Down vote me all you want. But don't put words in my mouth. Don't try and make me say I said things I didn't.

RP whatever you want. I've said it before. I'll say it again.

@surreality Yes, @Sovereign used those techniques on people to try and do RL predation. If it only happens virtually, because someone doesn't /know any better/ how does that make it good?

@Apos You don't know me. The only thing I am offended about is people putting words in my mouth so to speak and making me out to be some great villain for something I never said or implied.

@mietze Fine, you win. Just like Ghost. You win the internets. Tell @Pyrephox he also wins.

You have won the internetz. You have beaten me.

I'm tired of even attempting to get through to people anymore.

Everyone drink or whatever.

@Groth Yes I did, and the 'They are adults and can make their own decisions' defense WAS USED in this thread in response to one of my posts.

@Apos

If you don't understand how the 'It is just roleplay, it is just a game' defense doesn't upset people, then I dunno what to tell you either.

@Ganymede I liked the Descent, found it scarier than The Cave or whatever it's main rival was.

@Thenomain It's mostly I like to keep things consolidated. Fallout 3, Skyrim, Fallout 4 mods, I all go through nexusmods, but for whatever reason I do everything for the Shadowrun games through steam... I'm weird.

EDIT: @mouse No it does not, but you do have to be registered owner of the game I think. Not sure.

@mietze said:

No, but you are saying that anything people RP should be construed as them condoning it or supporting it in RL.

No I have not ever. Not once, in this whole thing did I ever say I wasn't condoning it. I was saying /I WISHED PEOPLE WERE EDUCATED AS TO HOW IT REALLY IS BEFORE BUTCHERING IT IN RP/.

That's it. Period. Quit trying to make me say shit I am not, it's boring, it's old, it's a straw man, and it's full of shit. The defenses of this style of RP are the /same thing/ as other offensive people have done, so I called out on that too. Then came the strawman attacks.

I've never said anything other than it could be damaging, and I wish people were educated, so as to create a /better/ RP experience for all and I am attacked, non-stop, by bullshit like this.

P.S. Everyone take a drink.

EDIT: Your story, while all heart wrenching and everything else (I too have been through similar situations, except the rapist in my case never even got fucking /prosecuted/) but NONE of that has any bearing on ANYTHING I have been saying. Go pull the fucking strings of peoples hearts where it's actually fucking relevant.

@mouse I'd check it out if you uploaded it to Steam.

@Groth Your experience is different than mine, but I haven't played WoD in /years/ now which seems to draw more of those types of 'relationships' than other genre's I've found.

@surreality To say that this hobby never leads to RL encounters is laughable. Seriously, it's kind of crazy how many people are trying to rail against me on this. I'm not telling anyone they can't do something or can't RP whatever they want to RP.

I've said my piece on it, I'm done talking about that tangent, which I already apologized for.

Feel free to rp anything to your hearts content and @Pyrephox thanks for showing everyone just how /stupid/ people can be, and how entertainment can definitely lead to RL tragedy even if you didn't mean to support what I was saying.

@Warma-Sheen I am not trying to dictate how people RP. I have never said that they shouldn't do that, just that I would wish they would actually try to do something /beyond/ caustic and abusive with it. The double standard being thrown about is amusing me to no end however.

I'll have to buy a new bottle of rum now.

EDIT: And shit like this is why I wish more people were educated as to how it should be: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2966492/College-student-arrested-tying-whipping-raping-classmate-dorm-attempt-recreate-scene-50-Shades-Grey.html

@Apos Maybe they are, maybe they just don't know any better because they are not educated about the subject and are influenced by previous RP and other media.

I can't say for sure and nobody really can. If you know the difference and /still/ choose to RP in such a fashion, that's your thing. I only know about my experiences where that hasn't been the case, and I have been approached for all manner of abusive relationships that people on the other side literally had no inkling of anything else.

I'm just promoting education and stating my opinion on the subject.

@Pyrephox That's so cute.

EDIT: Either way, I apologize for the derail to the tangent subject. I still think it's as was said before by @Ganymede more a passivity than a 'submissive' thing, due to lazyness and an unwillingness to go out and create RP. Reacting instead of acting.

@mietze It affects me and everyone else because it promotes an atmosphere where such a thing is not only accepted, it's /expected/. I have seen abusive ghoul relationships, and I have seen ghoul relationships that were anything but. It all depends on the players involved and the way they have decided to RP it out.

As a whole Gamers are /really good/ at throwing out what they don't care to believe in (Like for example it was written many times in oWoD that Vampires do /not/ have sex drives anymore (Unless one had a flaw) and couldn't even achieve anything resembling an orgasm without using the Kiss, yet vampire TS is pretty much ubiquitous to the point that when I RP'd a vampire without a sex drive, I was the odd one out.

The other point is that as anyone who has been around this environment for a long time what was once exciting becomes boring and mundane as we grow accustomed to certain things, we are on the look out for new ways to have fun, no themes, new settings, new stories, new RP partners, etc. The same thing can happen to sex lives and if we /start/ with the abusive unhealthy crap (Which I am not saying doesn't happen RL, I am saying it isn't /healthy/ from a psychological perspective (For most people, inasmuch as anything can be)) then where do we go from there.

@mietze said: And again, I am defending RP subject. Not behavior. The fact that you draw no distinction is troubling to me, and I find you telling me I am defending abusive /behavior/ offensive, but we will have to agree to disagree about what a terrible person I must be.

Yeah, because I made personal attacks and called you horrible... I guess... at some point I must have because it was written I did.

Here let me make this simple:

1. I find D/s (as it is most commonly portrayed online) to be a far cry from what it can (and in my /opinion/) should be.

2. RP is better when people are actually knowledgeable of what they are trying to RP.

3. People become desensitized to things, and I'd rather they not just become 'accepting' of abusive relationships, IRL or otherwise.

4. The defense you are using identical to the defense used by a 'villain' on these boards. That's all I was pointing out not saying you were a terrible person.

5. I wasn't the one stating that your stance was 'laughable' and insulting you like you were to me.

6. Get PDAnet, it's a program that'll allow you to use your phone as a wireless hotspot using regular data without having to get a wifi hotspot plan through your service provider. Been using it for years and years. Works great for mushing because it is not a high data transfer activity (for obvious reasons) and is reasonable for web surfing as well. You can also do a direct USB hook in as well using PDAnet if you do not have a wireless nic.

@mietze Also, and it's important to realize this, but I know it's just a game and I am calm. I don't let MU*Soapbox upset me because it's just a forum where we all go to either rant, bitch, pat each other on the back, share, advertise, or occasionally ask for help and warn others of some bad game situations.

Your /defense/ of this type of behavior is the same defense Sov was using: It doesn't matter because it is just a game. It doesn't matter because people can make their own decisions. It doesn't matter because RL is different.

I am just calling out what a double standard is being shown right now, how it's the same defense, for essentially the same activity with the thin veneer of 'I like it therefor it is ok.' as compared to taking advantage of people who simply do not /know/ better.

All I am promoting is education, it'll actually make your rp /better/ and more engaging rather than wallowing in the lowest common denominator.

P.S. I am not assuming anything, I was using the terms @Pyrephox was using. I am well aware that D/s relationships and crimes occur with all genders.

P.P.S. Maybe you are the one who needs to calm down, you edited that post several times while I was trying to post this reply.

@Pyrephox said:

@Lithium Murder also happens in real life. And theft. And assault. Does it offend you that people play characters who kill people and steal stuff? Is "Ocean's Eleven" creating a new generation of roguishly handsome thieves who would have been upstanding citizens if not for that dirty, dirty fictional depiction of glamorous criminality?

For real. You're now going /that/ route?

I wonder how interested you'd be in rp'ing out a story where a band of violent homosexuals went around raping guys compared to women with strap ons raping guys. Do both happen RL? Sure, they have happened. Yet you don't see it happening as a means of 'fictional wank material' for the most part.

Somehow because it's the abuse of a woman that makes it 'ok' in your world, because it is just 'fantasy', which /never/ impacts reality (Hahahahaha!) at all.

Sure, someone can make a 'choice' to RP something out, someone could also make an uneducated choice, or an educated choice. Just because you don't like what I am saying doesn't make it any less true, no matter how many silly 'comparisons' you try to make (Also, yes, crimes have been done in imitation of movies and television shows, just so you know).

@mietze I love how you're trying to defend against this the same way @Sovereign defended himself. It's really telling.

@icanbeyourmuse

Because it is empowering something negative that /does/ happen in real life. It can carry over to real life. When so many people attach so many emotions to their characters that they will behave irrationally IRL and in game concerning them it can be a gateway to making changes RL or open them up to predation RL such as @Sovereign has done.

Look, I'm not saying that anyone can't RP whatever the fuck they want. All I'm saying is that most people do not RP anything remotely like what D/s actually is in a healthy environment. The MU* version of D/s is a very negative and unhealthy stereotype and it offends me when it is done horribly because /there is never any consequence for it/ in games. It's just 'allowed' and swept under the rug.

By promoting such RP, people are essentially saying 'This is alright to play out.' and it cheapens and lessens what a healthy D/s relationship can be. It disturbs me how many people might (and actually /must/) think that is how D/s is, when it's actually not...

@faraday Reminds me very much of Strands of Fate system in many ways (That's a hack of Fate book).

@Pyrephox said:

@Lithium Most MU* play, like Fifty Shades of Grey, is a fantasy. One of the appeals of fantasy is that it doesn't have to be realistic - a story about a healthy, ordinary BDSM relationship never would have sold as many copies as Fifty Shades, because it was all about the convergence of several different common fantasy scenarios with a bit of spanking and leather sprinkled on top. Calling it abuse, as if actual people were harmed or adult female readers are incapable of distinguishing fantasy from reality, has always bugged me.

Same with the various sexy parings or groupings running around MU*s. Very few of them are "healthy", but they're not meant to be, any more than D&D is meant to be a thoughtful and respectful portrayal of exploration and colonization.

It's abuse depicted in fantasy and /empowering/ it at that. The environment depicted in the book and the movie are not healthy, and yet they glorify it. Just because it is supposed to be 'fake' doesn't mean people won't mimic it. Life imitates Art as much as the other way around (Remember those kids who got killed laying in the middle of the road like that one movie?) and when people say: Oh it is just a movie. Or, It's just fantasy it doesn't have any bearing on reality... They are just /enabling/ the spread of unhealthy behavior.

That kind of shit starts to sound like @Sovereign and it is disgusting.

As to the other part about playing unhealthy relationships on /purpose/...

What is more horrific, an entirely unhealthy relationship, or the corruption and loss of a /great/ one due to the environment or actions of predation?

I don't think most people on MU*'s actually know what a healthy D/s relationship is. They think Fifty Shades of Grey is something other than creepyfuckstalker abuse because that's what they think D/s is supposed to be like.

As for why more people might proclaim to be sub more than dom, it's because people are lazy and they can't be assed to come up with stuff themselves, and they don't understand that it's the sub who truly controls how far things go and instead just want masturbatory RP.

Which is fine I guess, not my cup of tea, but as long as they're not actually hurting anyone...

@TNP said:

Started with BBS games (anyone remember 300 baud modems?). I don't remember where I saw an ad for it but I started to play Gemstone III on GEnie back in the early 90s. There was the Sierra Network too.

Edited to add: Trade Wars. That was the name of the BBS game.

Trade Wars wasn't jut the BBS game, it was the BEST BBS game ever. Seriously.

I loved that game. Inn of the Red Dragon was another favorite.

Well when I'd typed that it was just a list of MU*'s Carry on! I can't remember all of whom I've played in the 20+ years of my mu'ing career either so I understand.