@Misadventure said in Realms - Sir Kay - Lotherio:
@Apu No need for guilt, you did not knowingly steal anything. You offered labor in a good faith way.
You shouldn't feel guilty, you should feel used. And angry. And strike down those you misused your good will.
You must strike down your enemies, feel your anger, join the dark side.
@Tinuviel said in Gray Harbor Discussion:
The problem with judging characters from the outside is that we often just don't know how deep their layers go. Often we see stereotypes or "the mentally ill one" because we're only seeing one layer. So it's up to staff to really keep an eye on shit like that, not us.
I can't say who is right or wrong; players or staff. That being players wanting to play other circumstance/condition/life choice/whatever other than how they currently live vs staff allowing vs too close to home vs seeing it too much vs bored with it as some element of a concept that must be included to make a character. Can't assume someone looking at said characters are only looking at one layer, they might be, but they may have more depth of view so can't just assume one way or the other. Same with person app'ing such a character, they could be using it as cornerstone 'this is how I'm different' or it could be the worked out the character history and some choices along the path of development lead to that inclusion.
My only thing was that we had a dogpile saying the staff was insensitive without really knowing why they felt too many were showing up too fast. The whole 'ban' part is temporary as far as I know. I don't know the why's of it all, other than we had a number of folks just taking on 'staff is insensitive' while being insensitive that there may be more depth to the decision then was on the surface. I was asking the dogpiling to reel it in a little.
As for PTSD, I was pointing out I'm over how often its used to help define a character, whether as a quirk or part of the defining elements of a character. I'm not going to ban any such players on my games, but I can sympathize with staff (who do this for their own fun as a hobby, not some obligation to let players do creative character development to educate themselves or learn/better understand other people/conditions/etc.).
And like @peasoupling , if eye patches aren't allowed and that's my jam, I'll shuffle over to the next game where I can get my pirate on. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. If there is some staff restriction on something I'm curious about, I don't see it being insensitive to my creative license so much as them trying to keep a handle on theme. I mean, they have nightmares and monsters of some sort and danger, for all I know staff just isn't comfortable killing a group of amputees that couldn't escape the latest monster vision dream thing just cause everyone wanted to play one (and honestly, that doesn't sound fun for me either if I were staff). Its their prerogative.
@Ghost said in Poll: Do I enjoy this hobby more than I don't?:
I also think that with 51 votes saying they're happy and 46 saying either an outright NO or "somewhere in between", that there's a lot of people who aren't exactly comfortable and/or might be feel comfortable being vocal about it.
Day late and dollar short. There was a statement made by you, I don't remember which thread. It pondered, are we all in the 'this one great thing happened on a MU' so therefore, 'Everyone is sort of trying to relive that glory.'
For me, I do have great stories, but every few years I end up with a better one. I continually think there is still more better yet to come. Some of us still enjoy it and think the best is yet to come.
Like, I thought I had seen it all a year or so ago, then @Ganymede decided their char wanted to build a defensive wall on a game to help defend against clans of Ulster. The RP and even prepping combat for a wall in FS3 was fun. The RP lasted a few sessions, then the combat started by having rams under turtles attack the wall (two vehicles for those familiar with FS3); which lead to a medic on the wall taking splinter (shrapnel) damage and the group rushing to figure out how best to help so they didn't lose the medic before the main fight.
There is new out there, but part of the reliving the past is that if one is holding onto the past as ideal, they might be missing the new fun stuff that is happening in the now.
For the record. If this happens:
PUB harasser: I'm gonna get you
PUB victim: please top talking to me, this is harassment
PUB victim has left the channel
I see nothing wrong with
p victim=You all right there?
They can certainly tell me they're fine, okay, leave them alone or to piss off at their leisure, but showing concern is not wrongdoing. If they told me to piss off and leave them be, I'd do just that and write them off as not to waste my time with concern again.
@Pandora said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:
@Lotherio Sometimes, immediate displays of concern/empathy can come off as thirsty for gossip/drama when you're already on-edge and feeling like you might be a spectacle. If you are told to piss off, I'd hope you take into account that they might in fact be sensitive/vulnerable at the moment & not entirely write them off as a person worth concern.
I concur. I work with behavior disorders in real life. In this past week my conversions start out, "Mister it's my birthday and my mom laid her hands on my", "Mister, last night 'uncle' came in", "Mister I lost my (sibling)". Any of those kids can tell me to get the fuck out of town and I won't write then off, we'll come around. That said on a mu I will show concern once, if that's a trigger and they tell me to get the fuck out, fair enough, I'm not there to counsel or help. I'm not writing them off, I'll respect their online space.
@Pandora said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:
if in fact your initial goal is to help.
In real life I enter volatile situations and ask immediately are you okay. I get a lot of the results indicated. These real life situations are ones that participants don't choose to be in/at and they've not learned or been introduced to tools/methods for coping.
Online text RP on the other hand is a complete choice to enter. If we both come around later oocly and end up getting along that's fine, but the cool down is an unknown. I'll ask, they can respond/ignore as they see fit. Unlike my real life youth, I'll give benefit of doubt to trust the person on the other line to have a few more life skills under their belt. If me asking okay on a mu doesn't go well I'll write them off for showing that concern again (asking okay after a incident), I'll trust they have some real method/friend/tool at their disposal.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm glad you're calling me on this. Trauma and trauma induced and informed and all this is super hot topic irl but is often misunderstood and misused. I believe what you're saying and think it should be understood, especially if a reader translated this to some situation in the world around them. I understand what you're saying and appreciate the concern all around, just this is my fun time too. If I get into my rp or some other staff duty my own dyslexia will kick in and this is a reading medium. My concern is expressed, they may even cool down and recall that I reached out. One never knows, one of my current real life favorites to work with is one that is much taller and heavier than me, or first interaction ended not so well with injury involved; I was unaware asking them to 'stop' was a trigger; we're pretty friendly now they'll ask to talk to me in situations, they reached out after to apologize (and very big kudos it was their initiative to do that not mediation/third party involvement)
Just remember, OP is trolling, not actually trying to engage in constructive discourse.
@de-villefort said in MUs That We Would Love To Make (But Won't):
The problem with most RPG settings and coffee shop chatter is that in most games you are keeping secrets.
Not to be rude but I think this is the issue I keep seeing in your responses. You keep speaking in absolutes. Modern moral/tech just can't be done, its boring. Most RPG settings are about keeping secrets. Literally, there are plenty that are PvE with open info (no OOC masques).
There are plenty of other games out there. Sure plenty of games where its kept a secret, but plenty of other games too. Its coming off argumentative. Most games are not WoD where you can't talk about whether or not your some supernatural being.
@de-villefort said in MUs That We Would Love To Make (But Won't):
I realize Clark Kent could go to some random gala as a reporter and Bruce Wayne could show up at a random bowling alley in Gotham to hang out with the plebeians... but why...? Why would you want to role play that?
The person you are presenting yourself as is a lie. The person the other players characters are presenting themselves as is also a lie.
You both ends up talking about meaningless stuff with people you know you're never going to have any real connection too because you're lying to their face and all you can hope to get out of it is a chance to arrange to meet them again to talk about more meaningless stuff while you continue to lie to each other.
Why bother?
As I noted this reads as the other half I pointed out. This is not a MU issue. Batman and Superman know each other in the comics. This is a player issue, you don't want social RP is how this reads.
I'm still gonna play out this exercise from my stand point. So here are some reasons to bother:
1: In your player plots, some baddy is in the city sabotaging galas, you're both making notes to track suspicious activity to get a lead the LuthorCorp or something.
2: The last 4 scenes were just +combat, you're tired of it. This could be a decompress from helping Green Lantern in another galaxy. If you two get a moment to talk you can discuss how to help monitor the Lanterns sector such that it doesn't take you away from earth and try to put that into play with the rest of the justice league.
3: You're tired of combat. This is a time to be human a little and rediscover what you're fighting for.
4: Its an open event, Dr. Pamela Lillian Isley is there, its not revealed yet she is Poison Ivy. Wayne Foundation donated money to some of her research, she's being honored. Its a great chance to build character story arcs so that in a few weeks when she brings down half the men in the city and you go to deal with it, there is this reveal --- You! You were so nice at the gala and here you are doing your villainy! Curses! (Yes, in a story it plays out way better for this switch reveal if there is story before it not hand waving).
5: Meet any number of folks for same reason as number 4, build story so that in a fight it means more in the story
6: Clark the disguise of Superman thinks the Bruce the disguise of Batman is just that and they play some cat and mouse to try and out each other. Clark tests Bruce's reflexes, Bruce pulls out his secret Kryptonite stash to see how Clark reacts.
7: Just to RP and see what comes from it. I know there is a push to arrange plots and ideas, but on the other shoe, its fun to see how they develop. Maybe Clark player doesn't know Hal player, so they can meet see how interacting is and then plot some Green Lantern Superman crossover even.
8: You're playing a feature, you need to be accessible to other players, help them with stories. Maybe there isn't a Jimmy Olson but some other reporter, it gives them a chance to know Superman's alter ego before they know the truth of who he is (again, story build up is better than wave the hand reveal). Some random non-superman villain wants to know the supers and play with them to build some trust to come up later to Superman player with idea for a plot to foil.
9: You're character development. Clark Kent passing as human is pretty big in all superman stories and movies. Don't hand wave character development. We're RP'ing to tell stories together, if you want a game, check out gaming consoles and computers that let you play superheroes where you get to constantly do the ass-kickery.
10: I could keep going. If you really don't want to do most of this, I'm curious why play on a MU* which involves writing and development and interaction between players.
For what its worth - if someone can make up a PC with a plot hook/quirk/secret/assorted past, etc - they can make a one-shot NPC with a secret that becomes a 'plot'. Instead of everyone is bored at the bar and a drunk NPC starts a fight, why not the drunk NPC that lost their wedding ring down at the lake where the players go muck about to find the ring, or the old NPC that needs that thing in their foreclosed house. Its the same as the Prince that lost their sword to the orcs or the old wizard that needs that spell component from the deep dark dungeon, just perspective. The latter seems more involved plot, but a quick NPC with a quirk is all that is needed. A secret from those who enjoy DM'ing/GM'ing on the fly, put out a random mystery and you'll get inspired by what the players contrive is the real mystery. Run with it like they solved it when really they gave you all the answers. Modify it like they were on the right path but there was a twist they missed if you're inspire to do just that. The only thing that is needed is a curious msyterty to solve.
There is an elephant in the room, it might not be white or big, but there is another fundamental difference between MUD and MUSH that should be addressed. In a MUSH death is nearly always permanent (except maybe superhero genre), there is no res at the temple, or pray to the gods, or take an XP cut. I know some MUDs do go permadeath, but most I've been on have some form of resurrection. As a MUSH lacks this, yes, some people are more concerned about death. Its why there is more cultural differences over meta and control, or being polite and speaking OOC a little to befriend.
Edit: On a MUD if someone is a jerk and I don't like their RP, I go play with others, or just go back to regular grinding. On MUSH, nothing happens without collaboration and cooperation of the other players.
The key is, once there is a little OOC trust, more players open up to things like allowing meta (ooc: can my guy punch you, ooc: sure, I trust you, I'll take the hit ...). If there is even more trust, and some story going, more people are even willing to accept IC death, especially for a good story.
@Pandora said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
@Lotherio said in Cultural differences between MUDs and MUSHes:
Let me rephrase this in another game.
We are playing chess. You get up to answer an emergency call, I want to capture your king. You're not there to decide you move, I do it for you ... and you can make up why you made such a horrible move.
It doesn't seem comparable, in the MU* example, no one is deciding what you DID do, they are only noting what you did not do. So the exact correlatory comparison would be:
It is forcing a 'you were not at your post'. Player cannot be on 24/7, or even every day of the week. Their char would be, this is making a weird cross over of OOC/IC.
Edit: Its forcing the player to make up an excuse for something OOC that isn't truly conceivable for the character who is in the world 24/7. I'm with Faraday, a reason could be found, but I find it better to offer the player benefit of the doubt for the character. Similar to having a character know something about the world the player wouldn't, and the GM/ST gives them a knowledge take to give them info. Instead of saying, welp, player doesn't know our theme, they're SOL, they give them the opportunity to allow character to meta for them.
@Derp said in Leadership, Spotlight, and PCs of Staffers:
@Lotherio said in Leadership, Spotlight, and PCs of Staffers:
Folks are saying if a game is setup for the general public, but then the general public is ignored, its not really a game for the general public is it?
Are they really, though? How democratic should games be, really?
You log into a game, read its theme, read its mechanics, and decide to play there based on preconceived notions of what is already there. Someone has already determined a direction for the game, determined the kinds of themes they want to see in it, determined the kind of feel that they want for it, and then they open it up for the general public to enjoy along with them along those specific guidelines.
If a game were truly open for the general public to decide the fate of, then someone would open a mush, take a poll on what people want to play, and then build the game that way. A mush is not a democratic organization, usually. Nor really should it be, if it's going to remain true to the theme of things. Players should have some sway on the storylines being told, yes, but they shouldn't be able to take it completely into the weeds, either.
So when we talk about 'player choice', how much player choice are we talking about, here? And if their choices are so far divergent from what the staff of the game wants in the first place, why not set up a new game? More games are never bad.
They make a decision to open a game, they decide on general meta. But there is never one solution to the problem. If I say, its L&L fantasy, the synopsis is the ancient dragon has awoken, magic is returning to the land, and they must deal with it, I've set a direction yes. I may decide the dragon send orc tribes for the first 4 months, then bigger monsters, to slowly tear down defenses. Its a general plan. Folks may have supernatural lore, they may discover the tribes have been paid to come, someone may realize the dragon is awake. There are hundreds of roads to travel to get to, the big baddie is the dragon - if my staff alt/pc determines the course to get there without letting players play, I've railroaded, or ran a sandbox for my character and friends.
Edit : That's the meta for everyone to play.
If I run a player character and focus on his lineage and family all while dealing with that meta second hand (fighting orcs, listening to others say we need to prepare for the dragon etc), that's perfectly fine in my book. If I form the plan to take on the orcs, send someone to discover the dragon, talk with the orcs to find out they were bribed by McBaddie Wizard, the stool of the Dragon, then I've made it a game about me and my staff alt.
I will say, I prefer public grid to be open. If a scene needs to be private or limited, take it to TP or RP or private rooms. Sure, a flag on +who or whatever would be nice, indicating a hangout or location is 'closed' scene, but really there are places to take locked/closed/private RP.
I do like the idea, if you ask for RP (hey wanna rp, or on chan, or whatever), you set the scene. I'm just not so sure about asking if someone wants to RP, and following up with, 'what do you want to do?' If you initiate in any way, have some ideas at the ready. Wiki's are a good tool to get an idea of a character you're asking for RP. Or be forward ... I'm looking for RP, don't know what do to, and am open to suggestions. Just avoid the 'what do you want to do?' ... and you won't get the 'I don't know, what do you want to do?" reply.
Edit: I do miss those days, wandering a grid to find someone then posing whatever came to mind, or seeing what was going on and jumping in.
I vote for a mix of sync/async play. Ares is great for this from what I've seen. Loggers on older Mu*s can be set up to to allow folks to play asynchronous.
I'd like to springboard off @Ghost. A lot of it feels like if you miss the right time, you miss out. The staff only doing big things at a certain time. I've been there, I've always been daytime and to date, I've yet to ever have staff run a plot an another Mu* that I've been able to partake of. I think more things during the day would help for sync plots. Scheduling times is good.
There is another issue I've noticed of late, on a busy place, not everyone signs up for player plots. If the event was set up by someone not staff, the turnout isn't always so good.
Something to solve both issues would be good. I like synchronous play but async is a solution. Having it in the culture of the game (directly in Ares, loggers for others) is a bonus. I think I need to embrace it more, async play. It tends to feel like forum RP to me and it was always slow but I agree it allows more of the folks with more RL obligations to participate. Async and empowering of players to run things that count just as much.
I think less focus on one 'plot' would help too, that way if someone misses the event its not like they missed the world changing thing - or more avenues for players to affect/change the world too.
I don't know what its all about either, but now I want the option of 70s muscle gods on vans murals meets 80s death metal bands and its some concept of demons fighting for souls and the comic heroes are some sort of angels/fallen demi-gods/gods/chosen ones fighting the demons through music and GWAR style weapons. Which comic place vote is that one?
ETA: My hero is based on Iron Maiden songs, called it - DIBS
No to offend anyone, but I've never gotten much into WoD. Its great, I've played plenty of TT WoD back in the day. It just seems that most modern fantasy seems to play along the same roots. As a fan of Pendragon, I was glad to see WoD attempt to give faerie a role as monsters that they are mind you, just most times I see urban fantasy, or dark modern, or something, it inevitably seems to have some WoD feel. Mostly because its taking euro-roots supernatural.
What I'd like to see in a Mu* is for someone to take another mythos concept and make that the monster in the night. If I had time, I would.
I'd love to see someone make it Arabian flavored. The good monsters are the Peri, the bad monsters are the Dakini, and the neutral powered entities are the Jinn. There is a who world of new political factions to explore.
And yes, I know various splatbooks sort of cover it or touch on it. Just, in the end, it still comes down to the core concept being euro-fantasy to me. Something at its core that is less euro-centric would be interesting, and for me that lies in Arabian flavor.
@tempest said in FCs on Comic MUs:
I really think @saosmash has a point. There's nothing of note about that timeframe, except the intolerance that is specifically aimed towards women, minorities, and gays. And it feels weird.
Nothing of note in the timeframe, or nothing of note on theme timeframe for the game?
Because there is tons of things happening in the 60s worth exploring and developing personally from a characters standpoint, from dramatic social changes to the middle class riot (clue less rebels, motorcycle clubs), to those very groups (gender/race/etc) working to establish more rights on the homefront, to the crazy politics following WWII and then the Korean War, and getting into Vietnam. Music revolutions reflective of the changing times. Its a time when the concept of war and how it was fought was changed to the point its not the classic idea of war and resources. For powered folks, I'd imagine all the shifty world politics and plays are where staff and such aim plots.
I've a weird concept that just normal drama surrounding like some motorcycle clubs in a cafe racer type environment could be interesting. With clashes between like motorcycle club, police, beatniks and socialists, and just old home good kids from the 50s (why we gotta be different, lets just be 'normal') could be interesting. But, that me.
@SG said in Is there a basics of CG out there somewhere?:
I've played around with FS3 and like it quite a bit, but what I'm looking for is a learning experience rather than getting a game up and running quickly.
My only advice then is to jump in to make it work the way you want it too.
Make a CG object, start writing code to write stats to wherever you store them (on player, a db object, whatever), and work jointly on your +sheet to read the info. Once you get it to write, then add checks and balances (can't be over a certain number, it doesn't write the state, etc.). Then if you get that going, you can work with limited CG points. It can remove add them to a cg point stat you have some where, it could be a data object that says X amount of points and reduces for everything they have on their sheet.
Just start simple and build up complexity, there are so many considerations and variables to a CG that change how you may build it, the best way is to jump in and try it. Get it to write, and read, first. Then worry about the rest as you get it going.
@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:
@Lotherio said in Historical MU*s:
@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:
Players should provide the majority of Things To Do. But it's still staff's responsibility - on historical MU* and otherwise - to facilitate, encourage and get out of the way of them doing so.
Agreed, completely.
I'm okay talking about Things To Do on historical mu*s and pondering ideas for staff meta on such places, just not as defense of my own interest.
Historical Mu*s have the advantage of more real challenges to groups and communities. Its not played up nearly enough though.
That's very interesting, thanks for posting it.
I had a question though - the fact the majority of players won't be nearly as versed as you are in the setting's history also reflects a different one; neither will most of your Storytellers. What are your thoughts about that other than pointing them to posts such as this one or (presumably) more detailed ones on a MU*'s wiki?
While we're at it, even modern day games have had the blues about their players misinrepreting theme or simply using what's familiar to them instead of reflecting on the real thing; for instance St. Petersburg (set in Russia, obviously) often featured what I could only describe as the same kind of thing you'd run into any major US-metropolis based MU*, only with more vodka and different names. Is that something that would/could frustrate you as a game-runner?
A few thoughts on it.
If using Storytellers in an official context, not just PrP, I think staff needs to communicate with them on the tone/mood/theme. This goes beyond Historical, but is beneficial to Historical theme'd Mus. If I as staffer don't want the Western theme mu to be bandits every other week, to the point every play group of friends has their own bandit family clan living off I the nearby wilds, I would need to give them ideas from prospectors coming to bankers and swindlers, or you know, poker challenge one week to marshall in the area the next.
If not using storytellers, I'm a fan of the +plot used on some places. I see this mostly on comic places oddly enough. Folks hit +plot and it finds a general thing to do (stop a robber, put out a fire, save a sinking boat, deal with protestors, etc), and it adds a potential villain (x villain, y group, z a friend unintentionally doing something wrong) and some synopsis of what may be happening (Doctor Doom is robbing the bank after being tricked by Apocalypse - where the code allows players to submit a snypsos with $villain on a line and the code searches the listing of Villains to put in random names). It is a quick access tool to general plot ideas for PrPs that do not involve staff approval and can be used to give a few random ideas to players unfamiliar with them. From plot ideas to aggressors to even mistaken aggression (Hero is tricked into doing something wrong - or Rancher puts up fence on neighbors land after receiving fake deed from swindler, a fight ensues in town by example - folks can stop the fight, or extend this into multiple scenes of figuring out the swindle by checking the law/deeds office, and tracking the swindler).
And about St. Petersberg, as already said here, staff should ask themselves, are we only doing St. Petersberg to put on cool fuzzy hats, drink vodka, and look at girls in bikinis in the snow in cool fuzzy hats, then they probably shouldn't do St. Petersberg (I might just play there for this reason o.O ...). Location should be chosen for some other interest. Maybe some of the meta will involve certain locations and organizations known to exist now, or formely, in St. Petersberg.
Sans staff telling storytellers, or using +plot code of some sort, news and wiki should cover a synopsis of ideas on day to day living. Also, I miss the days staff used to sit down in OOC rooms to meet with and do Q&A with players. We had a couple of these on Realms that went over fairly well.
\Dissemination of information is the key and not just pointing them to threads, but honestly answering questions and talking with Storytellers and players.