Posts made by Lotherio

Redacted so it wasn't there for any posterity sake.

@Thenomain said in Meta vs PrP vs Planning vs Impromptu:

@ThatGuyThere

We have no "Mushlike" way to enable this, and no matter what you do, the pose will be removed from the action. I would be happy if combat scenes had no posing and allowed table-talk, aka OOC, for the interaction.

In such instances I've played with roll than pose results, OOC and table talk is allowed. Some places use combat chan (FS3 softcode installs an FS3 chan). For me it comes down to that trust between ST and players, if everyone is trusted players can just roll. If they're unsure of modifiers and circumstance, the OOC or page for clarification, then roll away.

@Derp said in Near- and Middle- Eastern/Persian Centric Urban Fantasy:

Kheyr is good or white, Meshki is evil or black. Using these is equivalent to deeds and influences, readily weighing on one's tally simply by making use of this mystical energy regardless of the deed being performed (using Meshki for good is still an evil act, etc.).

By this logic, then using Kheyr for evil is still a 'good' act, because it's all good power, etc.

See how that road darkens the further you look down it?

But I'd play something like this, for sure.

Precisely! Or close, how dark does it get down that roadt? Using magic is an individual tally separate from the act. Using Kheyr adds a tally of 'good' to the soul, but the evil act is still evil; its equivalent to an act, not a replacement for the deed itself. This is really the moral dilemma I think folks are after in the 'gray hat' area of play, doing evil to accomplish good, or vice versa. Other games imply a playable gray area, but really mean there is no consequences to truly make it a decision of weight (doing the evil deed for the greater good), really more do what thou wilt.

And there is the play of humans tired of this whole dilemma, the Immortals in the above thrown together potential theme would be faced with, the use of Kheyr doesn't matter, the monster/mage/spirit/etc still did some evil dead and to them must pay for it.

Further still, the better part of this is that it absolutely plays into that constant near/middle east trope - The Genie Wager. Two spirits (genies) make a wager on the outcome of the decisions a mortal will make based on various influences they put into it, usually the evil one interferes more directly, while the good one has given the individual some good fortune previously and has studied the mortal in greater detail. Most of us are familiar with the concept through Shakespeare and Taming of the Shrew (or the movie 10 Things I Hate About You). I'll have to look later there is a great modern take on this from about 10 years ago that really plays into the gray area of decision making by the mortals involved, one ends up killing another I think and the eschew the whole play of spirits and the greater world beyond.

As a note, I'm the supporter in D&D discussions of using positive energy is a good act, using negative energy is an evil act, and the language was always in the books up until 3rd edition at least to support this (I don't know about later editions, I stopped trying to stay up to date when 3.5 was in the works).

Exactly, very similar to Al Qadim, same influence @deadculture. You may not be familiar, @DnvnQuinn, but then, some is more familiar then folks may realize. One could argue the ghul as influence for western vampire, and through D&D and subsequent RPGs we are familiar with the ghoul and some monsters.

Agreed @Packrat, its a wealth of things people aren't necessarily familiar with, but there is enough similarity (borrowing of concepts) its not entirely alien. Its the sort of differences I always hope for when someone says our place is modern urban fantasy but its not WoD and in the end, its very euro-centric and pretty darn close to WoD (which is hard to get away from if its really western based urban fantasy because they borrowed from lots of western sources).

In the Kinds of Mu*s Wanted thread, I threw out a want for a less Euro-Centric modern urban fantasy game. And in boredom, with a few good hours of time yesterday and this morning, between RL and Mu*'ing, I threw together a simplistic overview of such a different approach. This is combined from sources of near to middle east, as far as India, but nothing beyond (combinations of cultures along this side of the Spice Road), most heavily influenced from some Persian ideas and mythos.

Overview

The world exists in a Zoroaster System (not Zoroastrianism): There is a good realm, Paradise, beyond what humans know. There is an evil realm as well, Perdition. The totality of marks, good or bad, eventually lets one enter either realm. Reincarnation exists in the moral world and there is a tally on an individual that occurs throughout lifetimes until one achieves the appropriate tally to enter either realm. Various entities from both Perdition and Paradise work to influence the neutral parties in either way. These spirits are at a level of being that their acts are only judged by the influence they have on others. Should one follow the path of truth or good, they can cross the threshold of Paradise upon death of their current incarnation. Similarly should the weight of sin be heavy on one’s tally, they will transcend to Perdition when their current incarnation expires.

Magic

All magic comes from Jan, a mystical energy or force in the universe. Only certain beings can gain access to the utilization of Jan naturally, others must learn this, and the effectiveness of the utilization of Jan is based on their tally. Each tally is returned to those that access the Jan in either the form of Kheyr or Meshki. Each is used to influence and shape magic. Kheyr is good or white, Meshki is evil or black. Using these is equivalent to deeds and influences, readily weighing on one's tally simply by making use of this mystical energy regardless of the deed being performed (using Meshki for good is still an evil act, etc.).

Spirits of the Kheyr

Agents of good work to influence the neutral parties. Because they ultimately attempt to inspire good in others, they tend towards the Kheyr. They are innate users of Jan.

1. The Narah

These are agents of good associated with Paradise. The lowest of beings from this higher realm, then can access the world of mortals for limited times, and tend to influence the Peri to continue their works of inspiring good in the world.

2. The Peri

The peri, a supernatural like race, are between ‘angels and man’. They are the final step in this realm before one transcends to the beyond of Paradise. They can part the veil, enough to communicate with the angels of Paradise to known the will of Good that they may continue their work to influence Human and Janni alike. As they inspire others, they receive a tally to access the Jan.

3. Ghul

This is a specific Peri that has fallen from grace through the use of Meshki, this makes it much more difficult for them to gain further access to the Jan without tacking directly from other spirits, both free willed spirits as well as good/bad spirits. A sort of cannibalism, taking Jan from others also affects the vitae of the others. A ghul can kill another if too much Meshki is pulled from another. A ghul can draw Kheyr, but it's sometimes painful for the ghul and they prefer the much easier path they have fallen on. They tend to trick others into doing bad.

Meshki Spirits

Those agents of evil, either purposefully acting to lure the free willed spirits of the world to Perdition, or simply out of self interest. Due to the nature of how the work to influence others, they are mostly associated with the Meshki. They are as well innate users of Jan.

1. Deev

The Deev are free spirits that started as Daikini, but have instead turned to using Kheyr. Inspiring the free willed spirits to do good rather than feeding off the bad they so readily commit, the Deev have actively chosen to follow a new path. While some tend towards Meshki from time to time, it is far less harmful than the Daikini, and these are seen as more impish playfulness.

2. Daikini

The Daikini are a supernatural race bent on taking what it can from the free willed spirits and often serve as agents of the Shaytan and Perdition. They truly wish to enter Perdition for themselves and will tempt, persuade, and otherwise force the free willed towards acts of evil simply to gain a better tally. Willfully using Meshki to achieve their wants and desires.

3. Shaytan

The lowest of form of the beings of Perdition, they are tasked by other more harmful entities with interceding in the mortal realm on their behalf and, like the Narah, can can access into the mortal realm for limited amounts of time.

Free Willed Spirits

Unlike the spirits of the Kheyr or Meshki, these are beings that long ago were given free will, they are the mortals of earth. Two such were created, Humans and Janni. Janni were given innate access to the Jan while Humans have learned to access the mystical energies. Whether some cosmic experiment, or the will of some higher being to gain influence is beyond the knowledge of the mortal realm.

1. Humans

The majority of mortals are human, as we know them. There is little difference. Some do learn to access the Jan, they are known as Magi.

2. Janni

Very similar to humans, the Janni are innately tied to the Jan. Unlike the spirits of Kheyr or Meshki, they simply gain abilities based on how they act daily and their tallies of good or evil.

Human Magic

What magic there is stems from the mystical energy of Jan. What one can do with this Jan is based on the tally of Kheyr or Meshki that is weighted to them and their inevitable transcendance. This is measured by the deeds of beings in the world of free spirits, or by the influence of the free spirits by those associated directly with the realms of Paradise or Perdition.

1. Magi

Magi are humans that have learned to access the Jan. This is a learned tradition and must be studied through tomes and books. There are two such types of books. One is a combination of divination and astrology for determining potential outcomes and how they may be influenced (divination/astrology/etc.). The others is a determination of taking information from an individual and using that to gain power over others, from changing luck and fortune to what we would call ‘spells’ in a more traditional sense (direct healing, direct harm, super human feats, flying, teleporting, etc.).

Magi Organizations

1. The Efrite

Simply, sorceress/sorcerer. They see Jan as a tool, and the use of such is left to the hands of the user of Jan. Thus they will teach the tradition to others, allowing access to the knowledge to the brightest, those who show potential. There is simply one rule amongst them, Jan is not to be used adversely against other Humans without righteous cause. Will the use of magic against Janni is viewed negatively, it is not completely discouraged and, in some causes, can be warranted; such as Janni that prey upon humans for their own means.

2. The Sehr

The Sehr are an ivory tower of the Magi. Their utlimate goal is to know and weigh the measure of their own tallies. Not to gain access to either Paradise or Perdition, but instead to remain on the world of mortals through each life, returning as a human each time and continuing their traditions. The are keen guardians of knowledge and magic. Those who seek to join them are tested rigorously, and those who fail die.

3. The Immortals

The Immortals are those who know of Jan and the spirits of the Jan, the Magi and Magi organizations, but seek to end their meddling in the affairs of humans, good or bad. They do not access the Jan directly but do tend to utilize artifacts and items which allow them to access or interfere with spirits. Akin to monster hunters.

... Humans most touched on, but the wordly spirits can have organization and structure added to them just the same (looking at peri, ghuls, deev, and daikini). Where Narah and Shaytan can be viewed as entities and forces of influence (semi-deity like). Lots to play with, just basic building blocks that doesn't read like every other new breed of urban fantasy that just comes off like another version of WoD, but trying to avoid the politics and such associated with WoD.

As for combat and typing speed, as @Lithium noted, this can't be changed and is always an issue.

Similar to the CofD intent as mentioned by @ThatOneDude, my preference in mu* is to roll dice before a pose. Instead of posing intents, rolling, posing outcomes, I tend to like +rolling then posing. Some players aren't comfortable with this, or don't know the rules well enough, and may need to ooc ask, but this can save time. It can even bypass the 'intent' or 'declaration' phase in some games, if there is trust between ST and players. If someone is going to throw a punch and rolls the dice relevant correctly, they can pose landing it without it being a power pose, the dice handled that. Leaving it to the other to pose the damage and return action, +rolling what they need before starting their pose.

@surreality said in Meta vs PrP vs Planning vs Impromptu:

If you're creating the system from scratch, minimizing the instances of 'the results are up to the ST' judgment calls ...

This is what I was looking for as far as what benefit of GM’ing or plotting for a LARP might have to the medium. Thanks @surreality.

This can be done with a simple system ... folks can hate on it, but FS3 could get plugged here, a few attributes, a few action skills, unlimited background skills, simple resolution, faster for combat, easy difficulty system, simple results. RNG and mechanics buffs can argue either way, but I'm less interested in probability, just offering the plug.

But I agree, direct port of TT systems to MU suffers from this. including Pendragon, but I still enjoy Chaosium d20 and the passion/trait system for helping shape RP. This is not only for those instances of ‘up to the GM’ but also rules lawyers are more abound in established systems and with good cause when rules can contradict in instances in most systems and splatbooks change mechanics (once included, literally staff need to decide which instance of mechanics suits the greater good of the game, the core rulebook or the splatbook).

An issue relevant to plot in this could be addressed here. That is having enough info up front to help players run plot, helping with the player freedom side of the totality of meta and PrP.

One approach is levels of mu* ‘player’ (@ powers) and access to boards and chans. If I throw out plot as a staffer, I immediately try to put up something on the staff board with info, so any other staff can handle this should a player ask when I'm not on-line. This still leads to moments of plot happening when driven by players and staff intervention still being needed on a mu*. A player could be out running some plot, police are involved. Nothing world damaging, all fine under do what thou wilt PrP stuff (short of world damaging); not needed staff approval and hoops to be jumped through. But maybe something weird comes up. The police are called to get the supernatural cultist because one PC is law bound and wants justice, and at the cultist house there is blood all over the basement, the occultist pins it on the players when police arrive. One player +requests for staff to determine what police do instead of leaving it up to the player ST, or even the ST player isn't sure how this particular authority would handle the reverse accusation.

Mu*s come built in with a quick handle, @powers. It was used extensively back in the 90s, I’ve seen places using it, but more limited. There were flags added even to help access to bboards, this is done more with attributes now. Having various behind the scene theme info available to those willing to run things could help, but this goes back to hoops and no one wanting to jump through them.

I am curious of other solutions to this concerning plot, and breaking the necessity for what/when/where folks feel the need for staff intervention. I do know good STs roll with it, let outcomes and staff deal with it after the fact (the above situation, they'd probably research through google how this is handled and play by ear). There is nothing wrong with this, most willing to do that are comfortable enough with theme to know the boundary of when staff may have say. I’m curious how to make theme feel open enough to other players to feel free to run plots as they like, or to make it so others feel they can approach staff to ask if they want. I’m always approachable as staff, but I realize some bad staff have probably ruined this for some players by always saying no, or by responding negatively to creative ideas as offered.

Let me rephrase a little. I've planned meta plot on mu*s from whodunit mysteries and find the missing something or other to major factions overthrown and civil war that has included numerous players. I don't tend to look at it like a TT game at all, where I set it up for specific players. I usually don't plan based on system at all.

I'm honestly curious what is the planning for a LARP that a Mu* would benefit from? What is planned for scale in a LARP? I know it involves the STs spending time outside of sessions in lengthy prep meetings usually. I have friends that say they can't be around for hours each week because they need to plan. I'm looking less at 'why' and more of 'what' is involved.

@surreality said in Meta vs PrP vs Planning vs Impromptu:

LARP deals with matters of scale far better than tabletop rules. Matters of scale are, frankly, huge. That's but one of many reasons to look at the way LARP handles certain issues.

I can see this.

It has the benefit of limited play area and time slot requirement, so a plot that affects its scale, is also obtainable by everyone who is participating in the area at the time. Or are these elements easily lifted or not relevant to translation to a mu*?

Only curious, I know LARPers that are STs, and their plots are good, but seem limited to just that, an event and whoever can show up at that time slot.

@Sunny And I've never been interested in LARP'ing. I've seen you say it before, but why not point out some fundamental differences in how it is done and how it would benefit mu*s, I'm listening ...

@Ghost said in Space Lords and Ladies:

@Packrat my fave pennmush resource is: http://community.pennmush.org/book/export/html/21

Or logging onto M-U-S-H and asking on softcode 'how do you do ....' or 'does anyone have code I can copy and alter'

@Coin said in Changes to The Hog Pit:

I still remember the time my cousin and I convinced our other cousin that if you googled "Google" the internet broke.

He did it. We disconnected the internet just as he did it.

In the 90s when more military units started getting an/uyks, the joke on the kids just out of boot camp was that it was voice operated. Then see how long you could keep them sitting there saying 'computer on' ('it doesn't recognize your voice ... try saying ...'). You could demonstrate it by flicking the power switch when you said it.

The days before voice recognition was a thing ... I feel old.

That's awesome stuff @Lithium & @Coin.

That sounds like the heart of it right there. Coupled with other responses, I'm seeing a good basis for staff vs player control in moving things forward. Or the heart of it, which has always been what makes a place good ... staff and player unison of control in moving a mu* forward.

1. Know your theme genre, this doesn't change (simply to be stated).

   • Vampire are vampires, fundamentals keep consistency. Physics always work the same.

2. Know the scale of your Mu as relates to theme; this affects what change (and help set scope of plots).

   • The biggest picture isn't changing depending on scale.
   • Thus, elements or parts of the whole can and should change based on player involvement and not staff dictation of changes that players have no control over.
   • Staff should offer the potential for this change, leaving it up to player hands for how they interact with the potential change.

3. Give players freedom within the scope of theme scale.

   • Anything that doesn't outright change elements or parts of the theme scale should be open for players to do within that scale. Remove hoops; if it doesn't affect the grand scale of that theme and won't affect the other players outside of personal plots and stories, players should have freedom.

I used theme scale, because some it changes and is more meant to reflect whatever it is that has the players grouped together to play on the mu* to begin with. The core of that theme scale shouldn't change. If you're playing dragonlance, there should be dragons (mostly, depends on when the time is set). If you're playing star wars, you're always in that galaxy (the far far away one), it doesn't stop existing (but could be invaded as the books have done). If you're focus is on one city, the city should always be there, even if parts change, blow up, are rebuilt or politics change, and control of parts change, the city is always there.

A lot of it is the echo of years of mu*ing, but I'm with @Sunny, this is inspiring to read the thoughts here.

No to offend anyone, but I've never gotten much into WoD. Its great, I've played plenty of TT WoD back in the day. It just seems that most modern fantasy seems to play along the same roots. As a fan of Pendragon, I was glad to see WoD attempt to give faerie a role as monsters that they are mind you, just most times I see urban fantasy, or dark modern, or something, it inevitably seems to have some WoD feel. Mostly because its taking euro-roots supernatural.

What I'd like to see in a Mu* is for someone to take another mythos concept and make that the monster in the night. If I had time, I would.

I'd love to see someone make it Arabian flavored. The good monsters are the Peri, the bad monsters are the Dakini, and the neutral powered entities are the Jinn. There is a who world of new political factions to explore.

And yes, I know various splatbooks sort of cover it or touch on it. Just, in the end, it still comes down to the core concept being euro-fantasy to me. Something at its core that is less euro-centric would be interesting, and for me that lies in Arabian flavor.

@Sunny said in Meta vs PrP vs Planning vs Impromptu:

@Lotherio

Oh, don't wait for me. I mull things over for forever. Just considering how the community could do more of a hybrid between OTT games and your typical persistent-world mush.

I'm completely on board ....

@Lotherio said in Kinds of Mu*s Wanted:

I would like to see an OTT/multi game/genre Mu* that uses a home brew version of the recent'ish 6d6 system (http://tinyurl.com/j8a2mxo) that is balanced towards a mu* environment. Because I might want a western one day and Hong Kong Action the next.

System not withstanding, I think one mu and its system could and should be utilized for a few games. Instead of folks swapping a mu when it suits there fancy (western to kung fu), they can just pick up a character in that campaign for a few scenes, or join the meta, or just run some of their own PrP stuff.

In fact, I remember when it was almost a thing last year. You might of seen me idling/rp'ing there under the name Demos (the same few months last year I was giving KD a go and trying a little with Somerville).

Edit: spelling

@saosmash & @Lithium

That's perfect. That's the part I was curious about, and yes aside from that theme has to be an appeal in and of itself, but the enough meat and potatoes to show something is happening, with enough room for player PrP, plots and divergence is great. Its inspiring too, but I'll say no more, I'm curious to see what @Sunny has before I get to writing. I will say this is encouraging to help focus on some meta I've had going at my place, give it a better refinement to fit into the meat and potatoes section.

@Apos said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:

And in direct contrast to that, a lot of RPI's try to code everything and limit characters just to that code only, and force characters into narrow decisions that don't really fit what a character would do, removing decisions from players.

I think this is the biggest negative for me in RPI Muds. You show up first time on the grid and are forced to RP being naked because you forgot to type 'wear all' or something. For being RP 'intensive' its already a negative because it ignores character knowledge as opposed to player knowledge and the character would probably be dressed even if the player doesn't now how to wear clothes or get stuff from the newbie dispenser. I prefer my muds with less RP and more grinding.

And you already addressed this when you pointed out no one will be shouting at new players for being naked in public.

Hope your crossover project is successful, sounds like a lot of work melding two potentially drastic cultures in regards to what constitutes 'RPI' and what it means; assuming you're trying to draw in Mud folks towards the free form or mush versus reliance on full code to account for everything.

The responses suggest a mix, enough meta to make the game coherent and the shared experience really shared, with room to actually develop personal stories and plots at players leisure.

As everyone seems to think a bit of staff meta is needed, how much staff meta is needed to keep the verisimilitude as opposed to how much draws the line at staff control too much? I understand it will completely very based on theme and scale/scope of the game.

The difference I'm looking at is Mu-wide, everyone should be involved versus occasional ongoing meta plots that will affect the 'global' scale of the particular game but there is no requirement for players to have to feel a need to participate? I like the wet noodle analogy, but is an unstrung group of wet noodles for the player base to beat up on not enough to keep some interest in the game; ie 'No matter how many times you save the world, it always manages to get back in jeopardy again.'

All opinion, but so far, I'm considering looking a little differently from top down from the few answers here, thanks for the responses.

I am curious on player expectations going to a new game.

I've seen it in a few threads. Some of the constructive comments are for staff of said place to run more plots and events for players. Others are that there is too much control and little for players to do on their own.

Taking for granted there is no sweat spot between just enough staff run meta with just enough room players to run what they like ... what do folks look for at a new place when considering how much they want to invest in developing a character?

I believe in a combination of both, meta that doesn't require a ton of player involvement from day to day, but that players can jump into at their leisure when they can be on. Meta that isn't so earth shattering that everyone has to stop their storylines to at least address how they would respond to the mu*-wide plot.

As well, I believe players should have freedom to go out and do their own stories without jumping through too many hoops. This seems popular on supers places, practically a requirement. We can call it sandboxing if folks prefer, just I think the mu* should in part be the sandbox, not the TP rooms only; anything shy of changing the sandbox.

I prefer on the fly impromptu over heavily planning the meta as well, so it can be influenced by the players and their decisions as it develops. I don't plan a series of events for them to participate in, I put up a few npcs (groups and individuals) and potential obstacles (other potential environmental concerns) and establish something is happening (murder plot, take over the underworld faction, strong arm someone, open the gates of hell portal, whatever), and let them go about it as they may after interacting with a group to learn something is happening.

Just lately, there were a couple threads that suggest staff should be driving nearly everything but near the end of the Multiverse thread, one person noted the trend towards all the planning/time scheduling that is more and more common is sort of killing the impromptu nature that made it fun to begin with.

TL;DR: What is better, staff controlled meta or player run driven plots, with impromptu being viable vs all the scheduling that seems to go into plots these days (as suggested and pointed out by many)?

I'm honestly curious what folks tend to prefer and if I need to change my ways these days to try to account for what the trends might be.

@Gingerlily said in Good TV:

I watched The Girlfriend Experience on Starz because I was sick and it was there, I kind of can't tell if I liked it? The mood of the show is really strange. Did anyone else watch it? Can you tell me whether I liked it?

I was too busy re-watching Wayward Pines, but yes, you liked it.