@Bobotron
Yeah I think that would work better. I would avoid using the term yes first at all in the process.
Every person ad a slightly different idea of what is reasonable with in a theme. So saying something like Yes first as long as things are reasonable is asking for drama.
But yes saying you can go ooc and anything staff finds unacceptable on review will be retconned or whatever. That way you get the same message across but with out implication that wanting something staff disallows makes you some how unreasonable.
Trust me telling someone they are being unreasonable rarely gets them to think over what they are doing you are more likely you to get the oh you this this is unreasonable I will show you unreasonable response.
Posts made by ThatGuyThere
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RE: The elusive yes-first game.
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RE: The elusive yes-first game.
If you market yourself as a yes first game then the first no will cause people to bitch regardless of how reasonable that no might be.
Do I think this is right? No not at all. but it is will happen.
If you want to have a game that yes first and not lead to a lot of drama I think you almost have to go the small game or invite only route. -
RE: The elusive yes-first game.
Wow the fate system from DM lives again.
Not to mention this closely mirrors the risk system from City of Hope only with with out xp being involved there.
For my experience on DM this if how thing will go, everyone who cares about character building will be Level 3 for the xp bennies, though keep a friend who make s a level 1 char around them to keep the actual risk down. Regardless of what level they are set it will not lessen the ooc drama when things happen they don't want. -
RE: The elusive yes-first game.
@Arkandel said:
Absolutely, and I agree... I just don't know we'd catch this person by looking at their BG, that's all.
You aren't going to catch every one but you will catch more then zero which is how many you catch with a hands off policy.
A yes game could work maybe if staff were diligent at getting out the ooc bad apples. Every person says they will do this, very few actually do.
the personality traits that lead people to want to make a yes game are a lot of the same traits that result in giving people way too many chances to shape up. Maybe your hypothetical game would not follow the pattern. But I am pragmatic enough not to believe it til i see it. -
RE: Star Wars: Age of Alliances
Not really mushed Starwars so no comment on how it works online but I know in the tabletops i have bee in which is many for both D6 and Saga, I thought the D6 captured the feel of the movies better, the Saga version did seem to run a lot slower and make make OMG moments happen less often.
Divorced from setting i think Saga was likely a better system but D6 it was always easier to feel Star Wars with. -
RE: Comic/Superhero based games.
@Lilli
Cape Cowls and Villains Foul is another light game using the same system as Cartoon Action Hour.I do like the thought of having an all original character superhero mush with a system. Though not a fan of M&M and while I like Champions I think playing it online would be worse then shoving needles into my eyes given how long any combat would take.
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RE: The elusive yes-first game.
I think you are putting too much emphasis on rape per se. People of which mushers are a rather random subset will clash over things, in this case not just IC things but over the direction of the game, what kind of game is this type of things.
How do you resolve those issues? If you do not have something in place you will end up with it turning into lord of the flies.
Someone on the old Wora had a sig to the effect of It is a your interpretation of the game vs My interpretation of the game. That is the central conflict that leads to a good share of the ooc drama. This is one of the reason sandboxes have become popular they short circuit that conflict to some extent. Since you are not going that route how do you intend to deal with that conflict, while still maintaining the Yes game philosophy you desire. -
RE: The elusive yes-first game.
Fully coded combat would make things easier. Lord knows the length of time stops for combat even with NPC opponents is a good reason to avoid any sizable plot in WoD.
And I do think a Yes game would be a good thing, however I do not have the same generally good outlook on people that are has. My own opinion is much better summed up by W S Gilbert.
I also think in most cases of PK there should be at least some oversight to avoid the game becoming a mud. -
RE: The elusive yes-first game.
Ok you say players should handle the issues like removing problem characters ICly? How do you propose to make your pie in the sky game better about avoiding the hell that is trying to PK someone for whatever reason that most games currently make it?
Pretty much no game but full consent one ban pk, but have you ever tried to do it? I have not but just a quick looks at the various policies for it places gives a head ache. And that is all before the scene where it happens and then the OOC drama fall out from it?
Why does staff need to police the game when the players are adults, is sadly being adult does not magically make one not a jack ass. In fact being an adult really just gives folks the awareness to be better at hiding it if they so choose.
Yes first games can work but I doubt one would opened to the general public. -
RE: Mush Campaigns
That one is easy no not be a roadblock when it occurs. I have seen plenty of death retconned by staff sometimes even in plots they were running for the reason of I don't want to deal with the possible drama.
Another WoD game I was on had the usual can and will happen line but any death had to be in a staff run scene.
why yes death could happen in either case both are example of how you road block it so the can and will statement is mostly meaningless. -
RE: Mush Campaigns
@Arkandel
There is a world of difference between a game saying that death can and will happen, that is a good start the game as made a statement. Now it comes to the staff on the game to enforce that statement.
Sadly most of the time this does not happen, not just in the case of death but in any statement, It most cases the staff does not try to enforce any level of lethality so the can and will die statement means as much as me declaring no one can drive past my house today. If it gets noticed at all it is to be politely laughed at before everyone goes along their way.
Death on WoD games except Dark Metal has always been rare as hen's teeth, mostly because it leads to a metric shit ton of drama., which no one wants to deal with.
Of course I also see no problem with the example you site. In my mind that is how things are supposed to work. You had a plot to run. Player asked a question about said plot. You answered. He decided plot was not what he was looking for. How is that not everything working the way it should? Yes some people will play a mush to have it be supernatural house.
The social danger thing is hard to do on a mush, mainly because the main social power is all pcs. Oh noes if in a plot I become an official pariah, guess what besides not rping in a spheres special spot it likely will have no actual consequences Even Bob will no longer rp with me on his Sphere a character, we will just have his sphere B character rp with me and no real difference is made, and most of the time even if someone is ICly ostracized from the sphere people will still rp with them if they enjoy the player. Just like social rewards are mostly meaningless. Bab can become the hero of all things werewolf but if I don't enjoy rping with him. My werewolf would always find an excuse to avoid hanging out with him despite him being a hero. At the absolute best case for Bob would be a quick mail saying my char shows up is polite and friendly while I proceed to not waste my RL time on rp I am not fond of. -
RE: The elusive yes-first game.
@Arkandel said:
Players have all the tools to deal with and isolate, bring IC consequences or anything else to these people. The game isn't consent-based by definition. Law enforcement PCs can imprison them, badasses can beat them up or kill them. The tools are there.
That right there is why your Yes game will have issues, either you have those pks happen which means your staff will get to spend a decent amount of time on them and dealing with the fall out. Or the same players will just avoid the others as much as possible and your game will be sand box WoD #587 regardless of how many lot staff tries to run because folks will get conditioned ot avoid public scenes to avoid those they don't want to deal with.
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RE: Tales from the Crypt!
@Lithium said:
.. Signs got a lot of love though why any aliens would come /here/ if water made them melt is beyond me. Our planet is practically nothing but water and if they could travel here, they'd fucking know it.
So much this. It is why I can't handle the Movie at all, and why I think it was the last M Night movie I watch, either that or the Village which ever was second, between the two I was done.
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RE: Mush Campaigns
There is not right or wrong way to play these games.
To me the issue is games not being clear on what they are. To use table top as an imperfect example, in most of my games I states right away in the beginning that death can and will happen, a friend of mine in the same group when he runs is clear that only in the most unusual of circumstances will a PC die. Most players in both sets of games are the same and have fun, the tone of the games is different. His games tend to be more high action action blockbuster explosion-y stuff mind tend to be lower key gritty action more like film noir then summer blockbuster.
My issue with a lot of games where no death occurs is they are not clear about the expectations, so I play my char as cautious but active, not running from the plot but trying to do things in a smart way to maximize chance of success and end up being the char who never does anything because folks are rewarded for running heedlessly into danger. I have no problem being the action movie hero who laughs at danger but be clear that is the game you are running. -
RE: Mush Campaigns
@Ghost
To be fair there are quite a lot of people that play tabletops that way too.
I know I have have to really stress to new players that if the dice says you die I will not GM fiat to save you in my tt campaigns. I do this before i start each one and I still get players who have not gamed with me before surprised when it happens. And have lost players as a result for that matter. Note not every game I run is deadly it all depends on the genre.
Honestly I am fine with either style but I do think games need to be a lot more specific about what they are on the tin so to speak.
For example I had the same issues with Star Crusade as Cirno did some times. I played a Questing Knight out to do stuff and found mostly social scenes. -
RE: Tales from the Crypt!
@Cirno
Because M Night made a couple of good ones first.
that is the true secret to making it in Hollywood, put out one or two good and profitable movies then start churning the out the dreck, and raking in money.The good ones in M nights case are Sixth Sense and Unbreakable, granted Sixth Sense really doesn't hold up well after time and shock have passed.
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RE: Previously Mutants & Masterminds MUX, now a Question! DUN DUN DUN!
For me length of pose and length of wait are two completely separate issues.
Pose length is really a matter of scene flow more then anything else, what drive me crazy is wait time.
I understand rl coming up unexpectedly and am fine with slow with warning, but a regular wait of more then five minutes or so without word and i know my brain starts disengaging from the scene. I will stay and keep rping but at that point i know i am not giving my best, and am likely to have started focusing more on other things in other windows.
Note I am not especially harsh on this for example one of the people I rp with a lot is an exceptionally slow poser but they also chat a lot OOC so that keeps me paying attention what drives me crazy is the ten minutes of no screen movement at all. -
RE: Mush Campaigns
One place you might want to seek advice is Theno and Emma Sue, and I am sure others who were there., While The Reach definitely had issues upon issues, one of the things I have heard a lot of praise and positive things about was the meta plot with Scout etc. I can't really speak to particulars as I was gone from the game before it really got moving, the positives I was hearing about that plot in general made me have moments of wanting to go back, thankfully given the mess it became after said plot I am glad I didn't but there is likely a lot of good ideas to mine on what worked in regards to the meta plot.
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RE: Previously Mutants & Masterminds MUX, now a Question! DUN DUN DUN!
To me it is less about length and more about flow of the scene.
Some scenes are more visceral and for those I prefer short and quickly delivered poses to keep the emotional impact present.
Some scenes are more cerebral and artistic, in those i prefer longer poses and time really does not become a factor.
I like both types of scenes and both have a place but bad things can happen when folks are in once scene and each expecting a different type. -
RE: Previously Mutants & Masterminds MUX, now a Question! DUN DUN DUN!
In college when i cared about relationships enough to lie, I would also refer to the table top sessions as poker night with the guys. Gaming was a deal breaker but weekly gambling was accepted.