Posts made by Lithium

@collective said in How should IC discrimination be handled?:

@faraday

Let me start this by saying that I don't think 'Theme' trumps human beings. I just don't. If a hypothetical game runner does, they should post a notice saying so in policy or character gen, so I can move along and find another game.

But in those cases, it's perfectly okay for a given character to not like another character. What's not okay is to seek that character out to abuse them, if they've asked you not to. That does mean that certain people who must play their character as being assholes to a certain class of character might not get a chance to RP with many people of that class.

That's okay. Both players and characters are probably going to benefit by that distance and lack of tension.

Theme trumps all.

Without theme, then the game loses it's purpose. Without theme then people are not playing within the very /game/ that has been built. Theme violations are one of the most annoying and immersion breaking things that can happen.

If the /theme/ includes discrimination, then that is part of the theme. If it does not, then that is /also/ part of the theme. Trying to go against theme in /either/ direction is equally immersion breaking.

I would say I hate to type this, but I don't.

No game is meant for everyone.

There are plenty of games that I don't play on because I dislike the theme. That is 100% ok! It's not a good game for me.

Trying to force any game to conform to /you/ instead of the /theme/ is hubris and ego at crazy levels.

Nobody is forcing anyone to RP anything, you can always log off.

I say this as a trifecta of discrimination points, Lesbian, Native American, and a Woman. Just because I am those things does /not/ give me the right to try and change someone else's game theme, or anyone else's character. I will point out theme violations though, and hope Staff does something about that.

If I don't like the flavor of the Kool-Aid, I am not gonna drink it.

I turn into ultimate happy drunk, nothing can go wrong, everything is awesome.

Except on tequila. Then I lose my clothes. I have no idea where they go but they are repelled from my body at near relatavistic speeds.

Or something.

On topic though: I love it when a game inspires me in character creation and I totally fall in love with a character and just chomp at the bit to play it.

What almost inevitably happens though belongs in the mu things I hate thread though.

@auspice Wouldn't there need to be some sort of posts to try and enlist all of MSB into any such plot for said plot to exist?

@misadventure Doesn't feel clicky, feels like overstuffed even though it looks normal and my rings fit fine.

@Ganymede Staaawwwp... I feel old enough already. BTW you gotten Victor approved yet?

I had to drive a super huge 26 foot penske truck over 900 miles in one night. Then it had to be unloaded. So my house is full of boxes which I haven't had the time to go through yet and unpack, I haven't been able to RP in weeks, and now, when I start a new job today... apparently trying to control that truck for so long has seriously strained the ligaments in my middle fingers (No I wasn't flipping off people, was to busy trying to keep that truck in one lane the entire time).

So it is weird. My fingers... hurt I can still use them perfectly fine, they just hurt, feel swollen, etc.

Not happeh.

@ganymede said in Cheap or Free Games!:

@lithium

The Last of Us. At least, it should be one of your games.

I have not played it. I have heard good things but, money is what money is.

@apu I will search for games, apply, read what posts are being put up, and if I get a skeevy feel, I bail. Not afraid to bail on a roll 20 game if I don't feel it will be fun.

@thatguythere said in Questionably viable character types and tropes (tangent from staff ethics convo):

@lithium said in Questionably viable character types and tropes (tangent from staff ethics convo):

The character that isn't even remotely human, and thus cannot be interacted with by normal human means to any meaningful extent.

It's like... why?

I never minded this one, at least in the right settings, like the example of a Superhero game, if a significant number of the PCs are non-human or more than normal human and can interact with the character I don't see it as all that bad, after all while a character might not interact with the mass of NPCs but if most of the rp is about comic book style action then those tend to me more set dressing than anything else.
Best example I can think of off the top of my head is the early 90s Vision after they removed his emotional capacity, in RP terms it would be pointless for him to RP with a civilian but as the comics should there would be plenty of opportunities to have scenes with teammates and of course the plot stuff.

No I don't mean not human, as in an alien, I mean not human as in, a floating geometric shape with no human attributes, and does not communicate in human ways.

I've played non-humans, but they still have human qualities that makes forming meaningful human attachments possible.

@apu said in RL things I love:

After fourteen plus years, I got to do some RPing that didn't involve a mush! A friend ran an OTT via Roll20 and it was so much fun! I just might have to try and find an easy module for me to run.

Roll20 is a very fun thing, I have played and ran games there, but... I wish it stopped the anonymity of the internet thing, there are /still/ some people who start the insults the moment female voice is heard. Ah well. I guess it depends on the rando's you're with.

@insomnia said in General Video Game Thread:

Word of warning, just don't shut down the server in the middle of the night.

3 invincible zombie bears on night 4... ouch.

Sniper Rifle, the only way to blow off zombie bears heads. The new Behemoth that is coming is downright scary though... now I more than ever am considering building my base... by hollowing out a mountain.

@auspice L.A. Noire is the only reason I still own a PS3 (That's a lie, Red Dead Redemption is also a reason, And Gran Tourismo but... anyways...)

I've been kind of fixating on 7 days to die lately, and how interesting I can make my 'base'.

The game is legit fun, graphics are pretty low end, but it's still Alpha and still entertaining as hell.

Haven't read all this yet, but the one type and trope I simply cannot /stand/ is the person who is so shy/cautious they literally pose only how they aren't interacting with other people, and then complain about not getting RP.

And I guess another trope you see happen on SuperHero / Comic games sometimes:

The character that isn't even remotely human, and thus cannot be interacted with by normal human means to any meaningful extent.

It's like... why?

Bannings should be simple and to the point:

Player A was banned because they violated our policies that result in banning.

Done.

If you absolutely must list which policy just to head off questions. Bannings should be transparent imho, you don't have to name who was the victim or anything like that, but you most definitely should state which policy was the one that was violated.

This serves several purposes, it lets the players know you won't take violations of that policy, it warns people on other games that said person violated this specific policy, and it provides transparency on the situation that is needed.

The problem with 'Don't be an asshole' as a rule, is that it is subjective. I would never run with just 'Don't be an asshole' because of that. What one person is ok with, another person is not and there are some hard themes I will never allow on my games.

As for the person running the plot about possession and assault etc...

This is /kinda/ one of the reasons why I dislike people putting their own pc into any plot they are running.

Yes, some people can handle it, and use their PC as an NPC properly.

Others cannot.

It's better to err on the side of caution and protecting the player base imho.

@gangofdolls The Drow thing has a lot of backstory to it, and they were dark before they were ever cast underground. I can see why some might think of it that way however.

The real crux of it is this: There is no way to truly avoid discrimination because at this time humans are discriminatory by nature.

Sometimes it's racial ethnicity.

Sometimes it's social disparity.

Sometimes it's land of origin.

We as a species are always finding ways to /be/ discriminatory, so there's no real way of getting around that.

We even here on this board are discriminatory against certain types of RP, certain ways people describe their characters, certain character tropes.

Does any of this make it right? Probably not but we don't treat others equally. The only thing we can do is try to stop problem behavior.

As for the topic of the thread though, how should IC discrimination be handled? ICly. I don't hang out with people I dislike RL if I can avoid them. Why should it be any different in a game? I can dislike a character though, and still like the player, and still have fun interacting with that character but ICly, I guess it comes back to ICA=ICC.

At least for me.

@gangofdolls If a game has a must of 'human' characters, I personally find it easier to get into a character I can draw on more of my own experiences with than not. If I try to play a straight white person I disconnect from the character far more often because it is difficult (for me) to form a bond to the character. I worry if I am doing it justice, and being believable, and I often here the converse, playing another ethnicity or sexuality it is very easy to come across as a bag full of tropes.

Really, most of the problem with bigots in games is the ones who carry it over OOC or their 'desire' to play one means anyone who doesn't enjoy that type of interaction is suddenly in the 'wrong' for not wanting to interact with the bigot.

That idea is the problem, nobody should be forced to deal with something that makes them uncomfortable OOCly.

We have Fade to Black rules on a large swathe of games. We have rules about not being an asshole OOCly.

If someone /chooses/ to make a Bigot, then they are /choosing/ to deal with those consequences of doing so. They should do so maturely and respectfully instead of being a whining child about it. That proves they don't have the maturity to play that type of character.

That said: I much prefer completely fictional bigotry as a theme element. If it's bigotry against dwarves, elves, whatever... that is far less likely to impact people on an OOC level because as far as I know, none of us are those things and it's much harder to take it personally.

As a person who has ran into a lot of discrimination for various things beyond my control RL, I can say that when it happens IC it all comes down to one thing:

Is the person doing it being a dick OOCly too.

The quickest thing to make it be an issue OOCly for me is if the 'discriminatory' character says:

I am just playing in character. The character is racist.

And then just uses that as a defense for anything, and to try and get out of any ICC due to their ICA.

At that point the character is not the only asshole present.

I am playing a bigoted character, but it is mild, and will be more of a social thing than anything else. Will it affect her RP and story? Absolutely possible, I certainly hope so, maybe she will one day even grow out of it. Maybe not.

What I will /not/ do is use it as an excuse to attack other PC's or justify ruining a scene, or make it the /focus/ of a scene because no. It might be a thing but if it turns the PC into nothing but an Antagonist it's not really /adding/ anything an NPC couldn't do better.

I remember playing on a Western game way back when (Not sure if it was @faraday 's Sweetwater Crossing or not) and it /was/ a disconnect to the theme, which can be a major turn off, when nobody seems to be playing things the way theme says things are.

I wanted to play a minority who would do awesome and great things in /spite/ of her race and gender, which is very appropriate for the setting but... it didn't turn out that way IC.

IC discrimination should be handled ICly, but by the same token, nobody can be forced to RP with someone or something they don't enjoy. If my PC's bigotry becomes an issue that causes her to be excluded, then that is on /me/ and I won't take offense to that.

I /chose/ to play a bigot, that means I get to reap what I sow.